A Door That Swings Both Ways

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Interesting theory.  It seems to me that God cannot perfect us without the challenges of temptation, and since He can’t be the one to facilitate temptation, Satan is an important part of God’s program.  So at least in that way, they are working together. 

I think the natural man in each of us, our weaknesses would provide enough temptation.  After all, apparently Satan himself fell without someone pointing out all the temptations surrounding him.  Satan as far as I can tell only provides one temptation himself, which is to follow him.  The other temptations are in our environment or in ourselves.

Satan and others like him might speed up the process.  Perhaps they are still being allowed by God to practice their agency for now even if they are a negative influence just as plenty of mortals are and yet God allows their agency to continue.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Calm

[CV75]

3 hours ago, RAD DAD said:

So this thread was never going to be about repentance, I would like to get back to the original discussion if we could.  

So I was sitting in a parking lot at 4:30 this morning waiting for a store to open and looking at everything around me. Directly in front of me was this huge, very old oak tree. And I'm thinking, if God made this tree, if God is real, if he made everything we're experiencing at this moment, he must be an engineer to design something so brilliant as a tree, he must be a mathematician, a scientist, a doctor, a builder, and it got me thinking about how someone so intelligent, lost 1/3 of his children in a war in heaven that he fought against one of his most trusted advisers and son, Lucifer. And as of late, I just can't seem to stop thinking that God and Lucifer may be working in unison to create what we're experiencing here on this earth. Why do I say that? Because I don't understand this power Lucifer has been given for the purpose to tempt us while we're here on earth, it doesn't make sense to me. Is it priesthood power? Doesn't priesthood power govern the universe? And if it is priesthood power, then it can't be used for evil, correct? 

So what is this power Lucifer is using? And how does it get here to earth? If there's angels involved helping Lucifer tempt us, how are they getting the evil ideas into our brains? Is it a ray beam that's shot down into our head? Is it an email they send to a server we have implanted in our brain? Or is it more simple, and they're invisible, and constantly standing beside us, whispering in our ear trying to get us to do wrong? 

Do these angels of Lucifer love us, I mean, we are family, and we share the same parents, do they actually want us to choose the right, even though their job is to make us choose the wrong? 

How powerful is their power of Lucifer? Let's say one of God's angels isn't available, maybe they're on a potty break, can the Lucifer angel step in and protect us if he or she sees something about to go wrong, something that wasn't supposed to happen? This is one aspect of the door I'm talking about! Is the power of God and Lucifer completely separate, or is it intertwined and available to both sides trying to temp 

Everyone harnesses the power of agency in their own way, impacting everything around them, but collaborating only with the like-minded. God harnesses the power of agency to expand others' agency; the adversary harnesses it to undermine others' agency. The two parts with God are adding estates, so His approach seems to be the way to go as far as I'm concerned. 

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Interesting theory.  It seems to me that God cannot perfect us without the challenges of temptation, and since He can’t be the one to facilitate temptation, Satan is an important part of God’s program.  So at least in that way, they are working together. 

I don't think co-opting and outmeaneuvering the enemy's use of agency is the same as working with the enemy.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I think the natural man in each of us, our weaknesses would provide enough temptation.  After all, apparently Satan himself fell without someone pointing out all the temptations surrounding him.  Satan as far as I can tell only provides one temptation himself, which is to follow him.  The other temptations are in our environment or in ourselves.

Satan and others like him might speed up the process.  Perhaps they are still being allowed by God to practice their agency for now even if they are a negative influence just as plenty of mortals are and yet God allows their agency to continue.

100%- 

I have never blamed Satan for any of my decisions. I tend to cringe when I hear things like “satan is working really hard…” especially around youth. But it’s common. 
 

I can appreciate Mikes thinking outside the box.  It’s an interesting concept.  I think there was a TV show that followed the same thoughts, I’m sure somebody’s already mentioned it here.