(3rd) Update on Arizona Abuse Case

[Calm]

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2022/08/06/reflections-on-abuse-reporting-and-the-church
 

“I’m a licensed mental health therapist and an abuse survivor. I spend hours every week working with traumatized clients who have also been through abuse. This story is not like my story, nor is it like most of my clients’ stories. It is the most horrific story of abuse I’ve ever heard. In addition to reading the AP article, I spent hours reading the court documents online. I figured that if I’m going to be reacting to this story, I needed to hear the whole thing. I won’t lay out the details here, and I do not recommend that most people go read the court documents, not if you value your sleep anyway.

For members of the church, part of what makes this story so awful is that the conclusions the reporter came to don’t show the whole picture. You know this intuitively, even if you can’t articulate what all of those nuances and differences are. But despite the problems with this article (and there are problems) it is worth reading. My own personal opinion is that every leader in our church could benefit from reading that story – not because he gets it 100% right, but because he is offering us an outsider’s view on a very tricky area. There are two extreme responses to this article that can easily be found online.  One is “circle the wagons” to protect the Church’s reputation. The other is to concede without critique the conclusion that the Church helps abusers continue abuse. Both are unhelpful. Instead, I am suggesting a humble reading of this article from an outsider’s perspective to see what can be learned or viewed in a new way. This reporter (Rezendes) has a long history of solid reporting on sexual abuse issues.  He is portrayed in the movie Spotlight about how he helped break the story of abuse in the Catholic Church while he was working for the Boston Globe. He’s not a random, unknown person sitting behind a keyboard somewhere making things up. We would be wise to listen and learn. So, what can be learned?…”

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Fether]

Did the lawsuit come before or after the AP interviews with the Bishop?

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is the most horrific story of abuse I’ve ever heard.

Really? It is horrific but there are worse. Even far worse.

 

Edit: This is from the article in Calm’s post. It is not something Calm said. I find it odd that a trained counselor hasn’t heard some of them.

Edited August 7, 2022 by The Nehor

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Really? It is horrific but there are worse. Even far worse.

 

Edit: This is from the article in Calm’s post. It is not something Calm said. I find it odd that a trained counselor hasn’t heard some of them.

Did you read the court documents?

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Fether said:

Did the lawsuit come before or after the AP interviews with the Bishop?

I believe long before as they were talking about it last time the subject came up iirc. The border patrol agent was getting sued as well then. We only had the reports of the short interviews the bishops gave by a homeland security agent, the bishops hadn’t given any affidavits at that time iirc. My memory is we hadn’t heard anything else from the bishops at that time. The links would be in Smac’s earlier updates. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Fether]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I believe long before as they were talking about it last time the subject came up iirc. The border patrol agent was getting sued as well then. We only had the reports of the short interviews the bishops gave by a homeland security agent, the bishops hadn’t given any affidavits at that time iirc. My memory is we hadn’t heard anything else from the bishops at that time. The links would be in Smac’s earlier updates. 

Did the recorded interview of Bishop Herrod happen in 2017 when the arrest happened or when the lawsuit happened? I’m having a hard time finding that info

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, Fether said:

Did the recorded interview of Bishop Herrod happen in 2017 when the arrest happened or when the lawsuit happened? I’m having a hard time finding that info

Going from memory, the agent had a casual discussion with both bishops as reported at either the mitigation or sentencing hearing of the mother (no trial for Dad as he offed himself).  I was wondering then if there had been more in-depth interviews as there wasn’t any mention of them as far as I can recalled. I was very frustrated we didn’t have more firsthand info as just the border patrol agent testified, iirc.  I need to double check that (back in a bit, added:  see below).  I haven’t read all the reports the past few days, so don’t know if the info is in them.

The police were investigating the bishops and bp officer back in 2019 at least, so likely interviews took place then. 
 

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2019/12/11/mormon-officials-in-bisbee-being-investigated-for-not-reporting-child-sex-abuse/

“McIntyre would not reveal the names of those who are or have been under investigation, but he and other sources previously confirmed it is related to possible violations of Arizona Revised Statute 13-3620, commonly known as the mandatory abuse reporting law. Among those involved in the current investigation are special agents with Homeland Security Investigations, the federal agency which played a key role in the initial Adams’ sexual abuse case.”

”Last summer, HSI Special Agent Robert Edwards testified in a criminal case against Leizza Adams, the girls’ mother, that two former Mormon bishops in the Bisbee area admitted that Paul Adams confessed to them during several counseling sessions about his ongoing acts of sexual abuse of his then-only daughter.

According to Edwards’ testimony, one of the bishops is a prominent Sierra Vista doctor who said Adams first told him about the abuse around 2011. The bishop did not notify police nor a child welfare agency, but did tell Adams’ wife, apparently hoping she would take the children away from the home.

Edwards also testified that when that bishop left the position in 2012, his successor bishop claims to have contacted higher-ranking church officials for guidance on dealing with Adams. The second bishop told the HSI agent he was advised there was no duty to report the abuse under the clergy exemption in the mandatory reporting law.

Under state law, clergy members need not report suspected child abuse if they obtain the information by way of “a confidential communication or a confession” and if the clergy determines maintaining that confidentiality is ‘reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion.’”

Don’t remember if same attorney or not. 

“McIntyre’s confirmation of an ongoing criminal investigation came one day after Tucson attorney Lynne Cadigan appeared at the Cochise County Superior Court in Bisbee for a hearing whether she can have access to sealed and confidential court records related to Paul and Leizza Adams. Cadigan, who is known nationally for bringing lawsuits on behalf of abused children, was approved earlier this year by Judge Laura Cardinal to serve as victim representative for the two Adams girls.

McIntyre was present at Tuesday’s hearing but did not oppose Cadigan’s request for documents, which Cardinal granted. After the hearing, Cadigan declined to comment about whether she plans to initiate a lawsuit against anyone on behalf of the girls.”

”ICE Special Agent, Robert Edwards, who described this as one of the worst cases of abuse he has ever seen in his career, testified that he learned about the potential disclosure of the abuse to the bishop from Warr and went, unannounced, to speak with the bishop. John Herrod, a local doctor, was the bishop of the congregation the Adams’ attended from approximately 2004 to 2012 and agreed to talk to Agent Edwards when asked.

Herrod told Edwards that he believed the initial confession from Paul occurred in 2011. During this confession, it was disclosed to the bishop that the Adams daughter, who was six years old at the time, was being sexually abused and that the assaults were being video recorded. Herrod said that over the next 2 years, Paul continued to come and see him on a regular basis and often told him that the abuse was ongoing. Leizza was present during many of these confessions and, according to Herrod, would usually have no reaction to the disclosures. In 2012, a new bishop was installed and Herrod was no longer involved in the matter.When asked why he never called the police, Herrod explicitly stated that he had received instructions from the Mormon Church’s legal team in Salt Lake City not to report the abuse, but continue the one-on-one “counseling sessions” instead.”

https://www.truthandtransparency.org/news/2020/01/30/court-documents-reveal-mormon-bishops-failure-to-report-led-to-continued-abuse-and-an-additional-victim/index.html

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Fether]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

Going from memory, the agent had a casual discussion with both bishops as reported at either the mitigation or sentencing hearing of the mother (no trial for Dad as he offed himself).  I was wondering then if there had been more in-depth interviews as there wasn’t any mention of them as far as I can recalled. I was very frustrated we didn’t have more info as just the border patrol agent testified, iirc.  I need to double check that (back in a bit, added:  see below).  I haven’t read all the reports the past few days, so don’t know if the info is in them.

The police were investigating the bishops and bp officer back in 2019 at least, so likely interviews took place then. 
 

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2019/12/11/mormon-officials-in-bisbee-being-investigated-for-not-reporting-child-sex-abuse/

“McIntyre would not reveal the names of those who are or have been under investigation, but he and other sources previously confirmed it is related to possible violations of Arizona Revised Statute 13-3620, commonly known as the mandatory abuse reporting law. Among those involved in the current investigation are special agents with Homeland Security Investigations, the federal agency which played a key role in the initial Adams’ sexual abuse case.”

”Last summer, HSI Special Agent Robert Edwards testified in a criminal case against Leizza Adams, the girls’ mother, that two former Mormon bishops in the Bisbee area admitted that Paul Adams confessed to them during several counseling sessions about his ongoing acts of sexual abuse of his then-only daughter.

According to Edwards’ testimony, one of the bishops is a prominent Sierra Vista doctor who said Adams first told him about the abuse around 2011. The bishop did not notify police nor a child welfare agency, but did tell Adams’ wife, apparently hoping she would take the children away from the home.

Edwards also testified that when that bishop left the position in 2012, his successor bishop claims to have contacted higher-ranking church officials for guidance on dealing with Adams. The second bishop told the HSI agent he was advised there was no duty to report the abuse under the clergy exemption in the mandatory reporting law.

Under state law, clergy members need not report suspected child abuse if they obtain the information by way of “a confidential communication or a confession” and if the clergy determines maintaining that confidentiality is ‘reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion.’”

Thanks for the info. Is the actual recording/records of the conversation between the officer and Herrod available? I’m curious as to the context of the “you can do nothing”

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Fether said:

Thanks for the info. Is the actual recording/records of the conversation between the officer and Herrod available? I’m curious as to the context of the “you can do nothing”

They weren’t before. As far as I could tell he didn’t have recordings. He just reported. 
 

The new material has more info from the bishops, I believe.  I would assume given a criminal investigation took place starting in 2019, they were interviewed at some point in time. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

There appears to be court documents of a lawsuit (Jane Doe vs Mormon Church) online as they are coming up in Google with a screen shot, but I just get access denied, my copy paste of part of a sentence didn’t even work. 
 

Copied/pasted the url at least on my iPad, which didn’t show a screen shot of the court document, which I was hoping I might read well enough to figure out what it was.  Can anyone else access this or know what it is?  Amazon AWS? Added:  Amazon Web Services, guesting they are hosting the courts’ account.  Doing a poor job of security if I can see a screen shot of a court document and read “Defendant John Herron (“Dr. John Herrod”) was the Adam’s family physicians and remained the…” errors in the original

“https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=0CAMQw7AJahcKEwigyND06LP5AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fquincy-network.s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F39%2F2020%2F11%2FJane-Doe-1-v-Mormon-Church-1.pdf&psig=AOvVaw1WeypjRZHwVqfXITgfetGS&ust=1659930425345382

Different search terms yield “The Mormon Church and Herrod selected and assigned Warr to the Adams family as a “visiting…”

I wonder how much I can get if I keep trying variations, lol.

Added:  this is an on Scribd document, link is below.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did you read the court documents?

Yes. It it horrible. The abuse was extreme. The worst abuse story I ever heard was from Australia if I remember correctly. The perpetrator is in prison in the Phillipines last I heard and if he ever gets out (doubtful) half the nations on Earth would extradite him and imprison him. He created child porn. The worst of the worst of it. One of the victims at least is still alive but will never lead a normal life. There is a possibility this guy got a copy of it. It keeps popping up.

Josh Duggar, that guy from the reality show a while back, who abused his sister and was finally caught with a child porn stash. When he got busted he had a copy of it. I half-expect that case to open back up. A lot of the worst of the distributors of this stuff have a requirement to contribute your own (homemade) material to get access. It serves the same purpose as becoming a “made man” in the mafia. Once you have killed someone you are trusted not to turn on the organization as it is hard to get a deal to get off on murder charges. Same here. If you have produced child pornography yourself it is hard to burn the distribution network since it would expose you too.

[Calm]

Found another article not sure been posted:

https://www.myheraldreview.com/news/bisbee/judge-orders-text-messages-released-in-child-abuse-civil-complaint/article_682eef1c-ca23-11eb-bb4e-3f83395b1fc8.html

”The attorneys representing the three children who were subjected to physical, sexual and emotional abuse for seven years, mostly at the hand of their father, Paul Adams, believe that defendant Shaunice Warr knew what was going on and that the thousands of text messages between her and the children’s mother, Leizza Adams, would reveal that.

Kathy Brody, the attorney representing Warr, argued she had already given the plaintiff’s attorneys 10,000 text messages between Warr and Leizza Adams, and that the remaining 4,000 texts are irrelevant to the abuse case.

But Cochise County Superior Court Judge Jason Lindstrom ordered that the remaining texts messages be released to plaintiff’s attorneys Lynne Cadigan and Taylor Boren so that they could decide whether they’re pertinent to the case.

“The court does find that it’s possible those 4,000 texts contain information that Ms. Warr knew (of the abuse),” Lindstrom said.

Tucson-based Cadigan filed a civil complaint last year against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and others associated with it for not reporting the mistreatment the youngsters suffered. The children and their parents were members of the church’s Bisbee ward, the complaint states.”

”Shaunice Warr knew more about what was going on than anyone,” Cadigan said at the hearing, which was conducted telephonically. “That’s why we need these 4,000 documents.”

Additionally, at a hearing for Leizza Adams, Warr testified that Paul Adams was so unhinged she would have shot him if he had ever “gone postal” in the office.”

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

Smac, did you ever post these or see them posted in the updates…I am spacing and don’t want to reread those threads. 
 

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2021/07/16/judge-recuses-self-from-molestation-lawsuit-against-lds-church-after-not-disclosing-membership-in-church/amp/

“A Cochise County judge has removed himself from presiding over a multimillion dollar child molestation lawsuit against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) after the defendants raised concerns with the fact the judge is on the Church’s roll.

“I regret not being more open given the sensitivities of this case in regard to my history with the Church,” Judge Jason Lindstrom told the parties during a July 9 hearing on the matter. “I don’t tend to believe that it will cause me personal bias but there is no way for any of you to know that. And the appearance [of a conflict] is absolutely there 100 percent.”

According to the change of judge motion, Church attorneys became concerned after a June 28 hearing that Lindstrom seemed to display personal knowledge of the Church which the defendants believed was gained from a source independent of this case.”

”Lindstrom was previously a member of that Ward and has a close family member who was active in the Bisbee Ward during the years the children were abused. He later joined the Sierra Vista Ward, but did not mention his Church affiliation over the several months the case had been assigned to him.

The Church defendants, which include former Bisbee Ward bishops Dr. John Herrod and R. Kim Mauzy, wanted the case out of Lindstrom’s courtroom because of concerns they “cannot obtain a fair and impartial trial” with Lindstrom on the bench. The motion also raised concern that Lindstrom’s mother-in-law could be a potential witness due to her service with the Bisbee Ward’s Relief Society.”

”Another issue which Bannon will have to rule on in the coming weeks is the disclosure during the June 28 hearing that the Cochise County Attorney’s Office has served a subpoena on the children’s attorneys in an effort to obtain documents about the Church’s response to the Adams’ admission that he was sexually abusing his children.

For more than three years Cochise County Attorney Brian McIntyre has considered whether to prosecute Herrod and Mauzy for violation of Arizona’s mandatory reporter law. However, the subpoena reportedly refers to an ongoing criminal investigation of the Church itself.

Among the lawsuit documents which could potentially be turned over to the county attorney is several documents related to a West Virginia lawsuit against the Church which may have been shared with the children’s attorneys in violation of a West Virginia Supreme Court order.”

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2021/05/25/fight-over-medical-records-usbp-employment-file-and-out-of-state-attorney-delays-lds-sex-abuse-lawsuit/

“A Cochise County judge has been asked to referee a dispute over access to medical records of a victim of child sexual abuse, one of three pretrial issues among the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), two former bishops and a congregant of the LDS ward in Bisbee, and several children who claim their sexual abuse could have stopped -even prevented- if church officials had notified police.

The parties and their attorneys will appear before Judge Jason Lindstrom next month in the dispute over documents which might show a former LDS bishop, Dr. John Herrod, treated one or more of Paul and Leizza Adams’s children prior to 2017 when federal agents and Interpol identified Pail Adams as the man who recorded the abuse of children in his Bisbee home and shared the videos on the internet.”

”

The third dispute for Lindstrom to rule on is whether a Utah-based attorney can  serve as pro hac vice, or temporary, counsel for the LDS Church in the case.  The attorney, Peter C. Schofield of Kirton McConkie, would take part through one of the Arizona attorneys already representing the Church. But attorneys for the Adams children object to Schofield’s pro hac vice application.   

“All calls from LDS wards regarding child abuse go to the Kirton McConkie firm as they run the LDS abuse hotline,” the objection states, noting that records released by church officials list Schofield 19 times as the intake attorney for calls reporting abuse in Arizona.

“Peter Schofield and other attorneys from Kirton McConkie will be called as witnesses in this matter,” the objection states. “This creates a conflict of interest which should bar pro hac vice admission to any attorney from Kirton McConkie.”

The LDS Church has consistently asserted only Paul Adams could waive the confidentiality of his counseling sessions with bishops. The statute is silent on the issue of what clergy should do if they have a reasonable belief a child is being subjected to ongoing criminal abuse.

“Defendants assert that the Church Bishops had no right or obligation, consistent with the clergy exception to the Arizona reporting statute and other Arizona law, to disclose a confidential and privileged communication with a Church member,” the Church stated in its answer to the children’s November 2020 lawsuit.”

[Calm]

Some older articles about the lawsuit:

 

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2022/05/08/lds-church-ordered-to-release-members-report-to-bishop-about-abuse-of-her-children/

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2021/12/01/grand-jury-appears-to-be-investigating-lds-churchs-handling-of-child-sex-abuse-confession/

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2019/12/11/mormon-officials-in-bisbee-being-investigated-for-not-reporting-child-sex-abuse/

 

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2021/02/06/attorneys-for-mormon-church-deny-responsibility-for-bisbee-bishops-failure-to-protect-children-from-abuse/ 

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/church-and-local-bisbee-bishops-sued-for-non-reporting-of-ongoing-child-sexual-abuse/

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

Found a copy of the 80 page complaint in Scribd:

Jane Doe Et Al v Corporation of the Church Et Al on Scribd. Check it out: https://www.scribd.com/book/487315431

I do not want to read this tonight…maybe Monday. 

Added:  Of course I read it  

This was put on Dec 2020…it feels familiar, so I am guessing I read it before.  Maybe Smac remembers it?

Quote

8. The Bishops are appointed to control each ward by the Mormon Church and subject to their control. The Bishop of the ward is the “father” or “caretaker” of the ward, responsible for the wellbeing of all of the members of the ward (Handbook, Book 2 note 45 at 122). At all relevant times, Bishop Herrod, Bishop Mauzy, teacher Shaunice Warr and the other leaders, whose names are unknown at this time, in the local Arizona Stake and Bisbee Ward were acting as agents of the Mormon Church. The unknown defendants include the Area President, the Stake President and the President of the Relief Society, and their names will be added upon discovery. These unknown defendants and the defendant Bishops and teachers are all collectively referred to as Church Leaders, and hereinafter included in the term Mormon Church

9. The Mormon Church Defendants, Individual Defendants and Unnamed Defendants each assumed responsibility for the wellbeing of Church member, whether as clergy or volunteers appointed by the Mormon Church. In their capacities as Bishop, and other positions such as Stake President, Relief Society President, visiting teacher, Sunday School and Primary School teacher, the individual Defendants were held out by the Church as its agents and placed in positions of responsibility and authority over Church members. As a result, they each had a special relationship with members of the congregation, including the minor Plaintiffs. This relationship gave rise to a duty to protect members of the congregation, including the minor Plaintiffs from a foreseeable risk of harm. At all relevant times, the Church assumed special responsibilities towards its members including having a disciplinary and red flagging system meant to identify and track sexual predators and other dangerous individuals within the membership in order to protect innocent child members from the harm they might inflict.

You get the drift…not going to post more unless significantly new info

Quote

Warr would observe and help the Adams family at least once a week, paying bills, offering advice, providing counseling and general care

If she was paying bills often, I wonder if it was as an agent of the bishop (the mother refusing help from others) as appears to be being claimed by the attorney or out of her own pocket.  If the former, while the bishops did not report the abuse (and still wondering why the hell not), they were not otherwise forgetful or neglecting the family.  And Warr (outside the whole reporting thing) was doing an excellent job as visiting teacher if she was showing up weekly to help.  But she was also the kids’ Primary teacher and would sit with the family at church and the attorney may be adding that to make it a more impressive weekly deep involvement.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

This was put on Dec 2020…it feels familiar, so I am guessing I read it before.  Maybe Smac remembers it?

You get the drift…not going to post more unless significantly new info

So if our expressed intent to members was “sink or swim on your own, not our problem” it would not give rise to a “special relationship” with legal liability?

[Calm]

Quote

The Mormon Church and Herrod selected and assigned Warr to the Adams family as a “visiting teacher” on or about 2010 after learning of the sexual abuse of Plaintiff by Paul Adams. Warr was also Plaintiffs’ Sunday school teacher at the Church. The ward was so small that the only children in Warr’s Sunday school class were Plaintiffs and their siblings. Warr taught the children how to shoot, how to play piano and many other things. Warr became Leizza’s best friend and was very concerned about taking care of her. Warr had frequent contact and responsibility for the family, and developed a special relationship with the Adams family pursuant to the Defendant’s mandates. Warr stood in locus parentis with the Plaintiffs and the family, in a trusting fiduciary and protective duty of care to the Plaintiffs

No way were the kids all in one class unless I am misremembering their ages.  I highly doubt a ward has so small of a primary that there is only one family in it.  Maybe a student ward/branch (my husband was a counselor and my 3 year old son the only child in the branch, he learned to be very, very quiet at church all on his own, lol), but not a regular family ward.  They set up a special class for the Adams’ kids if they were the only ones, I am guessing.

[Calm]

Fast forward to the end which does not look familiar…maybe I gave up as too depressed last time I read it.

FYI, It contains the transcript of Paul Adams’ interview.  I will look at that later. (Looked at it, just a few pages for some reason, no new info, just Adams trying to wiggle out of the abuse charge, which is why I forgot about it).

I need to see if I can find out what happened about the lawsuit against Warr.  Is it mentioned in current reports I need to catch up on?

Quote

Upon information and belief, Warr even obtained her fellow Border Patrol agents’ assistance in offering to get Leizza and Plaintiffs to safety, as everyone at Border Patrol knew just how dangerous Paul could be.

So Paul is showing the porn on his phone at work and they apparently know of the abuse….why isn’t the Border Patrol being sued for not acting?  Is it not allowed?

added:  there is a free talk interview as well of Leizza Adams, but only part of it 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Calm

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

Thanks for the info. Is the actual recording/records of the conversation between the officer and Herrod available? I’m curious as to the context of the “you can do nothing”

I believe it comes from the presentence hearing against the wife.  I'm not linking to it as it has extremely explicit details.  But in the presentence, Agent Edwards (the Homeland Security agent who helped track down the abuser) is asked questions about how much the wife knew of the abuse and he mentions that Agent Warr (the Visiting Teacher of the family) told him that the bishop knew of it back in 2010 and that the bishop had both the abuser and the wife in the same room together.  If you do go looking for the presentence transcript, the conversation about the bishop starts on page 41.

Here's some pertinent quotes.

Page 47

Quote

A. Bishop Herrod explained to me that he consulted, as he referred to it -- and I mean no disrespect he called Mormon headquarters 1n salt Lake City, Utah, and asked for legal advice as to what to do. The church conveyed that he needs to continue counseling sessions, and that there's no duty to report to authorities due to the clergy-penitent privilege.

Page 49

Quote

Q. Did he understand why Paul Adams was excommunicated?
A. He did. He said it was for the sexual molestation of his oldest and youngest daughter.

(He later clarifies that the excommunication was just because of the oldest daughter because the youngest daughter wasn't born yet)

In another part, the agent also states what the bishop told him about what the abuser told the bishop.

[Calm]

An article referred to in the complaint about the helpline:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/d3n73w/duty-to-report-the-mormon-church-has-been-accused-of-using-a-victims-hotline-to-hide-sexual-abuse-claims

[Calm]

Quote

The church sent us this statement.

"The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no tolerance for abuse of any kind.  Our hearts ache for all survivors of abuse and go out to the victims in this case. This tragic abuse was perpetrated by the young victims' own father who died of suicide in jail while awaiting trial.  As clergy, the bishop was required by Arizona law to maintain the confidentiality of the father's limited confession. Notwithstanding, the bishop took the few details he had and made efforts to protect the children, primarily through the mother. The bishop urged the family to report the abuse or give him consent to do so, but they refused.  The bishop also convened a church disciplinary council and condemned the limited conduct he knew of in the strongest terms by excommunicating Mr. Adams from the church in 2013.  It was not until law enforcement made an arrest of the father that the bishop learned of the scope and magnitude of the abuse that far exceeded anything he had heard or suspected. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its clergy worked to handle this matter appropriately consistent with Arizona law. It has also tried to assist the victims and remains willing to commit significant resources to aid and assist these children. The church will continue to offer assistance to these young victims." The statement is from Sam Penrod Media relations manager, Church Communication Department

https://www.kvoa.com/news/local/news-4-tucson-investigators-bisbee-church-at-center-of-sexual-abuse-claim/article_143a9fc7-1dd9-540b-b13c-f34cdb11e050.html

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So if our expressed intent to members was “sink or swim on your own, not our problem” it would not give rise to a “special relationship” with legal liability?

Seriously, the complaint reads as if he is saying the Church proves they had a duty to protect the family and completely offered no help at all by offering all this help that they then list (besides reporting it and therapy).

Quote

The Defendants did not offer these victims therapy, nor provide them with help of any kind. The Defendants would sit next to these children in Church, visit them in their home, provide medical care, pray with them, bring food and other assistance, yet allowed them to be raped, beaten, abused, and severely damaged.

From the Scribd link.

[webbles]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

They weren’t before. As far as I could tell he didn’t have recordings. He just reported. 

It looks like there are actual recordings.  From https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2021/10/17/judge-issues-orders-in-lawsuit-against-lds-church-and-bishops-in-bisbee-child-molestation-case/

Quote

It was disclosed during the Oct. 12 hearing that the federal agent who served as the main investigator into Paul Adams has audio recording of his interviews with the two bishops. Whether a jury ever hears those tapes is something Cardinal will likely not rule on for several months.

 

[Calm]

That is good.  While it removes wiggle room, it is always better to deal with what was said rather than what was reported.  As it is, we have to accept the Bishop’s report instead of a recording of the hotline (which I understand,  but very frustrating if the hotline doesn’t work and you find out months or years later…how are you going to learn what went wrong, if it was a freak occurrence of systematic failure or most likely somewhere in between, but where and very important, if the issue has already been resolved?)