marineland Posted May 28, 2022 Posted May 28, 2022 I'm into lesson 8 of the manual (Religion 275) now and had a question on this quote. Page 35 Invite students to read 2 Nephi 2:6–9, looking for what the prophet Lehi said makes salvation possible. • According to Lehi, what makes salvation possible in God’s plan? (Students should identify the following: We can be saved only through the merits, mercy, and grace of Jesus Christ. You might share the following definition of what it means to be saved or to receive salvation: “Salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation or eternal life and consists in gaining an inheritance in the highest of the three heavens within the celestial kingdom. With few exceptions this is the salvation of which the scriptures speak” What few exceptions in the Book of Mormon show salvation is not exaltation?
Robert F. Smith Posted May 28, 2022 Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, marineland said: ........................ What few exceptions in the Book of Mormon show salvation is not exaltation? The words "celestial" and "exaltation" do not occur in the Book of Mormon, so are there any synonyms for such? In Hebrew, the name Jesus means "Salvation," and that is what Simeon says at the temple when he sees Jesus in Luke 2:30, "mine eyes have seen thy salvation." Matthew 1:21, "thou shalt call his. name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Luke 1:69, "Blessed be [Benedictus] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us" If Jesus redeemed us from sin and consequent temporal death, what does it mean to have eternal life? John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." His atonement saved us all from temporal death. How does that give us exaltation? Living forever is not the same as exaltation. All of us will live forever, no matter what, even those who are consigned to Outer Darkness. 4
Jaydes Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 I don't think the idea of exaltation was really conceptualized or discussed at this point
marineland Posted June 1, 2022 Author Posted June 1, 2022 On 5/28/2022 at 4:18 PM, Robert F. Smith said: The words "celestial" and "exaltation" do not occur in the Book of Mormon, so are there any synonyms for such? Based on what the manual said, "salvation" in the Book of Mormon is synonymous with exaltation.
manol Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) On 5/28/2022 at 3:18 PM, Robert F. Smith said: If Jesus redeemed us from sin and consequent temporal death, what does it mean to have eternal life? John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." His atonement saved us all from temporal death. How does that give us exaltation? Living forever is not the same as exaltation. All of us will live forever, no matter what, even those who are consigned to Outer Darkness. John 3:16 (and the surrounding verses) strongly imply that whether or not one has "everlasting life" is contingent on belief in Christ. If I understand correctly, by the interpretation you describe EVERYONE is freely given "everlasting life", such that, contrary to the point Jesus seems to be making, belief in Christ actually plays ZERO role in whether or not one has it. Is it possible that in this verse Jesus is using the term "everlasting life" differently from the way you use it? Am I missing something? Edited June 1, 2022 by manol
pogi Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, manol said: John 3:16 (and the surrounding verses) strongly imply that whether or not one has "everlasting life" is contingent on belief in Christ. If I understand correctly, by the interpretation you describe EVERYONE is freely given "everlasting life", such that, contrary to the point Jesus seems to be making, belief in Christ actually plays ZERO role in whether or not one has it. Is it possible that in this verse Jesus is using the term "everlasting life" differently from the way you use it? Am I missing something? I think you might be misreading Robert. He was suggesting that everyone will be "saved from temporal death" because of the atonement. He was not suggesting that everyone will be exalted.
manol Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, pogi said: I think you might be misreading Robert. He was suggesting that everyone will be "saved from temporal death" because of the atonement. He was not suggesting that everyone will be exalted. Sorry I was unclear, and thank you for making me aware of that. I think Robert is saying that "everlasting life" means "living forever" (his wording), or to use your wording "saved from temporal death"... something the Church teaches is freely given to everyone because of the atonement. In that case, WHAT is actually contingent on belief in Christ, in John 3:16 and the surrounding verses? Edited June 1, 2022 by manol
pogi Posted June 2, 2022 Posted June 2, 2022 3 hours ago, manol said: I think Robert is saying that "everlasting life" means "living forever" (his wording), or to use your wording "saved from temporal death” I am reading him different. I am pretty sure he follows the traditional Latter-day Saint interpretation of that verse and equates everlasting life with exaltation. and that “living forever is not exaltation (aka everlasting/eternal life)”. 1
manol Posted June 2, 2022 Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, pogi said: I am reading him different. I am pretty sure he follows the traditional Latter-day Saint interpretation of that verse and equates everlasting life with exaltation. and that “living forever is not exaltation (aka everlasting/eternal life)”. You are probably right; hopefully Robert will clarify. If Jesus is talking about what we would call "exaltation" when he uses the term "everlasting life" in John 3:16, then a legitimate alternate wording would be: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have exaltation." Am I understanding you correctly? Edited June 2, 2022 by manol
mfbukowski Posted June 3, 2022 Posted June 3, 2022 On 5/31/2022 at 9:17 PM, Jaydes said: I don't think the idea of exaltation was really conceptualized or discussed at this point What point? If you hit the "quote" button it will automatically quote the person to whom you are responding As it is, I have no clue what post or what time you're referring to
mfbukowski Posted June 3, 2022 Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, manol said: You are probably right; hopefully Robert will clarify. No need. He would never confuse the two. You don't know Robert yet Edited June 3, 2022 by mfbukowski
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