Fair Dinkum Posted September 28, 2021 Author Posted September 28, 2021 11 hours ago, webbles said: DNA studies actually don't pin the first contact. You can have contact without DNA sharing Also, it doesn't prove which direction the travel was. It could have been Polynesian who traveled to the Americas and picked up a man/woman or it could have been Native Americans who made it to Polynesia and left a man/woman. All the DNA studies do is confirm that contact was made by at least the 13th century. We might find more DNA that push it back further or we might find other archeological evidence that pushes it back further. Please re-read what I posted. "DNA studies pin first contact in which DNA was assimilated into the Polynesian gnome down to the 13th century AD" Of course we have no evidence of any prior contact and one might have taken place, but the first contact of which we have evidence for took place in the 13th century.
Rajah Manchou Posted October 1, 2021 Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) On 9/23/2021 at 10:32 PM, Fair Dinkum said: What if any evidence is there, other than that which I've shared, that would support our LDS tradition? If it exists, I would like to see it. Otherwise is it time for the church to just admit they were wrong and give these people back their true identity and culture? Turns out @Fair Dinkum, that the Book or Mormon is a surprisingly accurate history of Austronesia. The SE Asian civilizations of Rahma and Komara rose and fell at the same time as the Land of Ramah and Cumorah in the Book of Mormon. Komara was founded by a warrior named Maroni, and around the close of the Book of Mormon these Komarans sailed into the Indian and Pacific Oceans carrying their genes from as far east as Madagascar and as far west as Brazil. The Comoros Islands were named after the Kumr or Komara of Southeast Asia. Here's one reference among many. Oh and the geography of ancient Komara and Rahma match the geographies of Cumorah and Rahma in the Book of Mormon. Land Northward Zarahemla Land Southward Edited October 1, 2021 by Rajah Manchou 1
Rajah Manchou Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 On 9/23/2021 at 10:32 PM, Fair Dinkum said: It's long been known that the Islands of the Pacific were populated by a seafaring people migrating out of South East Asia not the America's. Further studies have only doubled down on this reality. All scientific specialties including DNA, Archeology, Palaeobotany, Paleolinguistics to name just a few, all support this SE Asian migration. Other then some South American DNA that was introduced after the Book of Mormon timeline, in approximately 1200 AD and the sweet potato and gord, see here there is little to no reason we should refer to Pacific Islanders as Laminates. A new study just released in Nature seen here adds further support for this migration from south east Asia and not from the Americas. The evidence seems overwhelming that Pacific Islanders are not descendants of Lehi, in direct conflict with LDS tradition. The church seems to have supplanted the actual culture of the Pacific Islanders with one found in the Book of Mormon of which this island population had no connection to. What if any evidence is there, other than that which I've shared, that would support our LDS tradition? If it exists, I would like to see it. Otherwise is it time for the church to just admit they were wrong and give these people back their true identity and culture? More Here Found this article today and was reminded of this thread https://razib.substack.com/p/a-whole-new-world “So with all this, are we equipped to say who the first Americans were? I think when all is said and done, we will find that the earliest humans in the New World were more closely related to the Australians and Papuans, rather than modern East Asians. In other words, the first modern humans who were present in the New World did not contribute much ancestry to today’s Native Americans at all. Only the ancestors of today’s indigenous South Americans genetically absorbed these earlier people who preceded the Beringians. This must have occurred more recently than 15,000 years ago when the Beringians arrived, and if the evidence for variation in ancestry in contemporary Amazonians is replicated, pockets of these earliest Americans may have persisted down to the relatively recent past.” It’s looking like there were people in the Americas before the ancestors of today’s Native Americans arrived, and those people resembled the present-day inhabitants of the Andaman Islands.
rodheadlee Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 On 9/27/2021 at 6:28 PM, Fair Dinkum said: No they did not. Cuz no contact had been made by North American indigenous natives with Polynesians. CFR
mrmarklin Posted October 4, 2021 Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) On 9/28/2021 at 8:25 AM, Fair Dinkum said: Thor Heyerdahl only showed that a western migration was possible NOT that it actually took place. I’m pointing out that it could have happened. A lot of people smarter than me think it did. Your assertion in the OP is far from definitive. So we’ve been arguing over nothing. There are no definite facts. Edited October 4, 2021 by mrmarklin
Rajah Manchou Posted October 4, 2021 Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, rodheadlee said: CFR 1 hour ago, mrmarklin said: I’m pointing out that it could have happened. A lot of people smarter than me think it did. Your assertion in the OP is far from definitive. So we’ve been arguing over nothing. There are no definite facts. Not sure he's on the board anymore, but we now know that there was likely contact between South Americans and Polynesians previous to the European arrival in the Americas: DNA reveals Native American presence in Polynesia centuries before Europeans arrived "The researchers found that contact between Polynesian individuals and a Native American group related to present-day Indigenous people in Colombia occurred as early as A.D. 1150—two centuries earlier than indicated by the 2014 DNA study. The place where the researchers could detect the earliest sign of contact was in Fatu Hiva, an island in the South Marquesas. Fatu Hiva is much farther from South America than Rapa Nui, but it could be more easily reached than Rapa Nui due to favorable trade winds and currents, notes archaeologist Paul Wallin of Uppsala University in an editorial accompanying the study in Nature. Wallin, who also worked at the Kon-Tiki Museum in Oslo, notes that the new results suggest that South Americans reached eastern Polynesia even before Polynesians from points west arrived, which would prove Heyerdahl “partly right.” Edited October 4, 2021 by Rajah Manchou 3
RevTestament Posted October 9, 2021 Posted October 9, 2021 On 9/23/2021 at 9:32 AM, Fair Dinkum said: It's long been known that the Islands of the Pacific were populated by a seafaring people migrating out of South East Asia not the America's. Further studies have only doubled down on this reality. All scientific specialties including DNA, Archeology, Palaeobotany, Paleolinguistics to name just a few, all support this SE Asian migration. Other then some South American DNA that was introduced after the Book of Mormon timeline, in approximately 1200 AD and the sweet potato and gord, see here there is little to no reason we should refer to Pacific Islanders as Laminates. A new study just released in Nature seen here adds further support for this migration from south east Asia and not from the Americas. The evidence seems overwhelming that Pacific Islanders are not descendants of Lehi, in direct conflict with LDS tradition. The church seems to have supplanted the actual culture of the Pacific Islanders with one found in the Book of Mormon of which this island population had no connection to. What if any evidence is there, other than that which I've shared, that would support our LDS tradition? If it exists, I would like to see it. Otherwise is it time for the church to just admit they were wrong and give these people back their true identity and culture? More Here There's not really much. The Polynesians are not Lamanites, but they are probably of Manasseh anyway. If one pays attention to the text, a lot of the people apparently could not fit on Hagoth's boats, and went on foot by land.... That is simply not going to work in the Pacific Islands.... and they headed north. The Book of Mormon did not take place in S. America, despite whatever tradition you are beholden to. So you are doubting a tradition... that just really isn't so.... Next.
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