Are Latter-day Saint missionaries the fastest language learners?

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

He must be really good. The Nordic languages are dissimilar enough that I struggle when communicating with Norwegian, Danish or Icelandic speakers. 

He spoke to a lot of Swedes and Danes in Norway. He says Danish is harder than Swedish to understand. He and the exchange student had no problem communicating over a half-hour conversation. Icelandic is apparently not intelligible by the other three Nordic Germanic languages. 

 

[Dan McClellan]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I have no idea who translated it. Perhaps @Dan McClellan could comment?

I believe Peter Berkhahn was involved in the 2003 revision, but I could be mistaken.

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Pretty sure that Immo Luschin wasn't the translator of my version of JdC. I served 1972-74; he hadn't yet translated the Book of Mormon into German -- we had to make do with a translation I wasn't particularly fond of. There were a few questionable passages that did not match well with the English. There was one in particular, a passage used in teaching investigators, that wasn't correct. Unfortunately I can't remember which passage this was.

Incidentally, the church doesn't use the Luschin translation of the Book of Mormon any longer. I'm not sure why that is, because I liked that translation. The newest translation was published in 2003, and thought I have a copy I haven't yet spent any time with it. I have no idea who translated it. Perhaps @Dan McClellan could comment?

Also incidentally, I just checked and Brother Luschin passed away in 1998 at age 79. See ancestors.familysearch.org. There's a story in the page, it goes:

Immo Luschin Military Experience

Immo was in the Gebirgsjäger of the Wehrmacht and fought in myriad locations in World War II, from Crete to Finland. Immo marched to Paris during the occupation. One night during the march, he held onto the saddle of his officer's horse, and managed to continue walking while he was asleep. During a firefight in Crete, Immo and an Allied soldier shot at each other from across a river, hunkered down. Neither managed to kill the other. Years later, at the meeting held for all temple presidents (13 at the time), Immo seemed to recognize one of the brethren present. After a brief exchange, the two realized that they had fought each other all those years ago. Once, a commanding officer told Immo, "Luschin, Sie schießen wie eine Sau, aber gut." "Luschin, you shoot like a sow, but well." (Note that the expression "saugut" is a casual idiom that means very well.) During the war, Immo felt that if he would keep himself sexually pure, that he would be protected to survive the war and have a son. He was clean and had a happy marriage.

Yours was probably Johann Wondra, or Max Zimmer if it was older than that. 

Luschin's Book of Mormon was fantastic, and his translation of Talmage sounded and felt like Talmage. He was a gifted translator. Some members weren't happy that he was President of the Swiss temple, because he had Nazi sympathies (many good members did then). 

The one Luschin passage that we talked about, and which I ask people about when languages come up, is Moroni 10:5. He phrased it positive ("ask God if these things are true"), when the original and almost all other languages say "if these things are not true." A Spanish elder in our mission pointed out that there is a subtle psychological difference in praying to know if things are true vs. are not true. I think God answers, either way, but it was an interesting point. Luschin also rendered Adam and Eve Ish and Isha (man and woman in Hebrew), which was ideosyncratic. But overall, his German text was more true to the English than the older Wondra or Zimmer versions, in my view. 

[rongo]

Just now, rongo said:

Luschin also rendered Adam and Eve Ish and Isha (man and woman in Hebrew), which was ideosyncratic. But overall, his German text was more true to the English than the older Wondra or Zimmer versions, in my view. 

An elder from Köln used this as a prooftext that Kölnisch is the Adamic language. They say "isch" instead of "ich."  

[Scott Lloyd]

27 minutes ago, rongo said:

He spoke to a lot of Swedes and Danes in Norway. He says Danish is harder than Swedish to understand. He and the exchange student had no problem communicating over a half-hour conversation. Icelandic is apparently not intelligible by the other three Nordic Germanic languages. 

 

I question that. 
 

I know Finnish is altogether unlike the Nordic tongues. Finland is not even part of Scandinavia. 

[Stargazer]

7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I question that. 
 

I know Finnish is altogether unlike the Nordic tongues. Finland is not even part of Scandinavia. 

Finnish is of a totally different language family. And yes, the Nordic countries don't consider Finland part of Scandinavia.

In connection with Scandinavian languages, including mutual intelligibility, you language nerds (@rongo @Scott Lloyd @CA Steve ) might find this video of interest:

 

[rongo]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I question that. 
 

I know Finnish is altogether unlike the Nordic tongues. Finland is not even part of Scandinavia. 

Finnish is a very difficult language. It's part of the Finno-Ugric language family, and is close to Estonian and Hungarian. It is completely different from the Germanic Nordic languages. Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish are mutually intelligible (like Swiss, Austrian, and German dialects --- they can be difficult for others to understand, but they can be understood). Icelandic, because of its isolation, is not really intelligible, but some can be understood in reading. 

[mfbukowski]

39 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I question that. 
 

I know Finnish is altogether unlike the Nordic tongues. Finland is not even part of Scandinavia. 

Oddly Finnish's closest language is HUNGARIAN.

Now THAT could be a lost tribe that Christ might have visited that I really would like to see their Book of Mormon equivalent!!

Edit- oops- you got that also!

Edited September 30, 2021 by mfbukowski