secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Calm said: So once again you are calling them liars when they state they haven’t used tithing money. And yes, I do see a big difference between investing the tithing and never touching the principle, but only interest or other contributions. My husband gets part of his salary from an endowed chair. It is not that hard of a concept to process. Tithing money is the seed money. The profits from that are also sacred tithing funds. steal some of that and you likely get exed for stealing tithing. Edited July 24, 2021 by secondclasscitizen -2
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 5 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said: Why should beneficial life also pay taxes and then not use the insurance guarantee benefit instead of taking tithing to get their house in order? They should have used just used the benefit. Either way belly up. So you complain when members are told to go to the government, but when the Church takes care of it first, it is also wrong. 2
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 Just now, secondclasscitizen said: The profits from that are also sacred tithing funds. On whose tithing slips is it written?
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: steal some of that and you get exed for stealing tithing. CFR Exed for being a thief of church money, sure. Identified as stealing tithing, want to see that. Edited July 24, 2021 by Calm
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Calm said: CFR Exed for being a thief of church money, sure. Identified as stealing tithing, want to see that. Stealing tithing invariably involves fraud which is a felony pretty much everywhere. A serious felony is an ex communicable offense per the church handbook so there’s your cfr. a ward clerk bishop etc who is entrusted with tithing (aka church finances cuz it’s all tithing) and fraudulently misused it is committing a felony. If they are not exed for that they certainly should be.
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, Calm said: So you complain when members are told to go to the government, but when the Church takes care of it first, it is also wrong. You are the one saying it was good the church didn’t use the govt not me. I complain about the members being told to do so cuz the church has always taught us to not be dependent on the govt and then they turn around and send members to the govt for a handout. -1
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Calm said: So once again you are calling them liars when they state they haven’t used tithing money. And yes, I do see a big difference between investing the tithing and never touching the principle, but only interest or other contributions. My husband gets part of his salary from an endowed chair. It is not that hard of a concept to process. Nope not calling them liars but they sure are not transparent about the source of the money …and? Am I not allowed to have that opinion? Edited July 24, 2021 by secondclasscitizen -1
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 38 minutes ago, Calm said: CFR they saved money by paying off all company’s customers instead of just cutting that group adrift and using other funds to cover GS’ needs. Guessing the latter choice would have cost a lot less. Cfr where I wrote this. Quote me. You don’t need to make up things. I never wrote that. You should retract this. -1
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said: Maybe because they are using tithing money? I know it seems silly but just saying. Have you any evidence from scripture that church leaders in the Bible or Book of Mormon or other scriptures that something like this happened? Tithing money was miraculously invested and made the Church wealthy?
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: Cfr where I wrote this. Quote me. You don’t need to make up things. I never wrote that. You should retract this. I never said you wrote it so I don’t have to retract. The implication from your claim it was really about the GA’s with policies that they used all that money to save church leaders’ investments, when there would be less costly ways of covering their losses…that is what I would like to see… But instead here is a CFR for what you claim, all those GAs that would lose big time and needed to be saved… Edited July 24, 2021 by Calm 1
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: Yep I’m calling them liars… and? Am I not allowed to have that opinion? Not according to board rules: Quote Do not belittle religious leaders or use demeaning nicknames (ex. Calling Joseph Smith "Joe") • Libel is not tolerated and you may be held legally accountable 3
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 18 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: You are the one saying it was good the church didn’t use the govt Not my point….
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Calm said: I never said you wrote it so I don’t have to retract. The implication from your claim it was really about the GA’s with policies that they used all that money to save church leaders’ investments, when there would be less costly ways of covering their losses…that is what I would like to see… But instead a CFR for what you claim, all those GAs that would lose big time and needed to be saved… I’m going to refuse the cfr. The claim you want me to cfr was never made by me so no obligation on my part. Report me if you like but the statement I’m posting directly below is your work not mine so perhaps the burden of a cfr is on you. You should probably just forget about it. That statement is completely made up. “CFR they saved money by paying off all company’s customers instead of just cutting that group adrift and using other funds to cover GS’ needs.” -2
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 23 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: aka church finances cuz it’s all tithing You keep stating this as a fact as if your opinion makes it fact. I am not interested in your empty repetition. 1
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Not according to board rules: 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Not according to board rules: Ok… mmm I’ll retract the liar statement. Not transparent is nicer I guess. -2
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: I’m going to refuse the cfr. The claim you want me to cfr was never made by me so no obligation on my part. Report me if you like but the statement I’m posting directly below is your work not mine so perhaps the burden of a cfr is on you. You should probably just forget about it. That statement is completely made up. “CFR they saved money by paying off all company’s customers instead of just cutting that group adrift and using other funds to cover GS’ needs.” True, doesn’t really matter to me that you have again just relied on your opinion as if it was fact. I will give it the respect it deserves than rather seeing if you had any foundation for suggesting the church bailed out Beneficial for the sake of GA’s instead of all customers. 1
Calm Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: Ok… mmm I’ll retract the liar statement. Not transparent is nicer I guess. It doesn’t assume intent to deceive…which hasn’t been demonstrated.
secondclasscitizen Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Calm said: You keep stating this as a fact as if your opinion makes it fact. I am not interested in your empty repetition. Quit responding. -3
The Nehor Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: Stealing tithing invariably involves fraud which is a felony pretty much everywhere. A serious felony is an ex communicable offense per the church handbook so there’s your cfr. a ward clerk bishop etc who is entrusted with tithing (aka church finances cuz it’s all tithing) and fraudulently misused it is committing a felony. If they are not exed for that they certainly should be. There is actually a separate section on stealing church funds. It is pretty much automatically excommunication. Other felonies have leeway. It is also the only excommunication offense that has a specific additional requirement for readmission. You have to repay all the money you stole before you can be rebaptized. This is in addition to repentance and all the other stuff. Yes, I don’t we don’t call it excommunication anymore but it is late and I don’t feel like fixing it. Edit: It’s also not all tithing. You are wrong. Edited July 24, 2021 by The Nehor 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Calm said: They were closing down the company, you think they should be paying them for doing nothing? The DN article iirc said they worked at getting employees other jobs. I was saying they just didn’t have a job one day and handed a check and shown the door and that was it the next day. Deseret Management companies tend to offer fair-minded severance packages to laid-off employees. 1
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