The natural man versus a saint

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, telnetd said:

I agree with you but the scenario of a "maybe" is not an option when the Plan of Salvation says "Death
will not change your personality or your desire for good or evil"

In other words, death (in and of itself) won't change a person's mind, but a person who has died could still possibly change his or her mind after giving an issue some more consideration. 

A dead person will still be alive so not much will have changed, in some respects.

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, telnetd said:

I agree with you but the scenario of a "maybe" is not an option when the Plan of Salvation says "Death
will not change your personality or your desire for good or evil"

But the Plan of Salvation allows for time to bring change in eternity just as it can in mortality.  If someone compared me as a teen (totally introverted and terminally shy) with the current apparently out going, semi confident individual who argues with doctors and stake presidents when I disagree with their conclusions and instructions, I would guess they would say my personality has changed, though I would describe it as a result of nurturing aspects of myself that weren’t being nurtured when I was younger, but more suppressed.  
 

If when we die, we are mixed bags of good and evil desires or at least not good desires (thinking laziness, wanting to be comfortable more than helping others, etc), then surely if we have eternity to grow in, we may end up being able to purged of our less worthy desires.  And it is quite possible that even currently dominant evil people have positive aspects of the personality that might come forward if they choose to nurture them. For example, a narcissist might in the next life become more aware of how their actions truly harm others and with that realization of their pain, they may begin to nurture a desire to help others more than helping themselves at times, slowly growing in the ability to truly love. 
 

So death does not somehow immediately transform us, but time and God’s help might. This is a key factor of the Plan of Salvation. We are not stagnant beings in the next stage unless we choose to be. 

[rodheadlee]

On 11/2/2020 at 6:50 PM, telnetd said:

Do you mean all I quoted from The Plan of Salvation booklet is incorrect ... especially that
death does not change one's desire for evil?  It is also mentioned in Alma 40:13,26 and
41:4.

The wicked/evil people seem to fall into these two categories:

"people who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ"
"those who continue in their sins and do not repent"

I read Doctrine and Covenants 138 but it does not say anything about happiness or 
joy for the telestial and terrestrial inhabitants.  However, I see a mention of those who
will receive exaltation (a fulness of joy) in verse 17. 

After the millennium Satan will be let out again to gather up those who are wicked. this is a second judgement before the Earth becomes celestial. 

 maybe someone else already covered this in the thread. If so I apologize for bringing it up twice.

[teddyaware]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:06 PM, telnetd said:

I agree with you but the scenario of a "maybe" is not an option when the Plan of Salvation says "Death
will not change your personality or your desire for good or evil"

You misunderstand the meaning of what you’re quoting. All it means is that at the very moment of death one does not magically transform from an evil person with evil desires into a good person with good desires. But give that same recently deceased individual  enough time suffering with full intensity for his sins in the spirit prison and he, like Alma the Younger, will very likely have more than ample motivation to want to sincerely repent of his sinfulness and change for the better. Here’s a good example of the process of change I’m talking about:

12 But I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins.
13 Yea, I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell; yea, I saw that I had rebelled against my God, and that I had not kept his holy commandments.
14 Yea, and I had murdered many of his children, or rather led them away unto destruction; yea, and in fine so great had been my iniquities, that the very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror.
15 Oh, thought I, that I could be banished and become extinct both soul and body, that I might not be brought to stand in the presence of my God, to be judged of my deeds.
16 And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul.
17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.
18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.
19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain!(Alma 36)

Edited December 27, 2020 by teddyaware