JamesBYoung Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) Did I say that, teddyaware? Godly men make mistakes, even you and me. And be calm; you are no inquisitor at all. I am making no attack, only asking difficult questions, and you seem to have problems with that. Understand that is your problem, not mine. Under the Mosaic law, I believe that Nephi would have been tried and executed for wanton murder. Before you ask me for proof, you have to prove your charge iaw the law of the day and place. Nephi seems to have problems with it when telling the story all those years later in his life. Read Spencer's Chapter 4 in his 1st Nephi and get back to me. Edited July 20, 2020 by JamesBYoung
mfbukowski Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Meadowchik said: You use words and their agreed-upon definitions. So I think you agree that some extent of objectivity in human thought and communication is possible. Is that accurate? Now you have changed the subject. Yes, social agreement and communication is possible obviously. But that does not mean that what is stated in that agreement "corresponds to the world", which is what "objective" usually means. "True" is a word we use when a 'jury of peers' agrees to believe a proposition, nothing more, nothing less. "Objective" to me means "what everyone would agree on", but that is usually a tautology like A=A. The problem is thinking that induction "corresponds" to reality.
Ahab Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: "True" is a word we use when a 'jury of peers' agrees to believe a proposition, nothing more, nothing less. It is more than that, because some juries of our peers do not agree to believe those propositions. True is a word that refers to what is real, as opposed to what is not real. Truth is about how things are, or were, or will be. 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: "Objective" to me means "what everyone would agree on", but that is usually a tautology like A=A. The problem is thinking that induction "corresponds" to reality. "Objectivity" to me means "what everyone thinks something is", including the full range of subjective opinions. Dictionary definitions, basically, with multiple definitions for each word. What Mormonism is, for example, whether or not someone believes in Mormonism, as opposed to knowing what Mormon ism is considered to be by various people with different opinions.
teddyaware Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, JamesBYoung said: Did I say that, teddyaware? Godly men make mistakes, even you and me. And be calm; you are no inquisitor at all. I am making no attack, only asking difficult questions, and you seem to have problems with that. Understand that is your problem, not mine. Under the Mosaic law, I believe that Nephi would have been tried and executed for wanton murder. Before you ask me for proof, you have to prove your charge iaw the law of the day and place. Nephi seems to have problems with it when telling the story all those years later in his life. Read Spencer's Chapter 4 in his 1st Nephi and get back to You appear to reject Nephi’s solemn final testimony that as he recorded the sacred account of his ministry (1 Nephi and 2 Nephi) his words were inspired directly by Christ. You place Nephi in a most difficult position because in 1 Nephi 4 he records some the very words he asserts Christ gave to him, but you say Christ didn’t give those words to him because God would never command Nephi to do such a thing. From my perspective, whether intentional or not, you are severely underminIng the credibility of Nephi’s final testimony to the world. He’s testifies that the words of his account are from Christ, the Source of Truth; but you contradict him and say Christ didn’t give those words to him but that he is guilty of cruel, deliberate and unprovoked (I.e. wanton) murder. It will be most interesting to see what takes place at the bar of God when some accuse Nephi of committing cold blooded murder, and then deceitfully putting word’s in Christ’s mouth in order to justify his crimes. 10 And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good. 11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness. (2 Nephi 33) Edited July 20, 2020 by teddyaware 1
JamesBYoung Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 I counsel you, teddyaware, to re-edit your post and drop any suggestion of words that you put in my mouth. We don't have to eat the forbidden fruit; we don't have to listen to the snakes.
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