Duncan Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2020-06-27/president-nelson-mission-leadership-seminar-joseph-smith-187832 According to this recent address by President Nelson he is saying that Moroni visited Joseph Smith 20 times, I know about 3 or 4 times in 1823 and then the 4 yearly visits and that would be 8 but 12 other times? When was this? Link to comment
stemelbow Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Yeah...wow 20 visits from Moroni, 9 visits from the Father or Son, dozens of other angelic visits. That's a lot. Either Joseph was a dreamer, seeing himself as very important, or he was visited by angelic and divine wisps because he simply couldn't get things right or keep things straight. There's no middle ground. Just kidding. I like to talk prophetic sometimes, as if it's all either/or with no in between. There are plenty of options to choose from. Interesting Quote Joseph came to understand that “worldly knowledge is severely limited when compared to heavenly knowledge,” he said, adding “whatever Joseph lacked in earthly educational opportunities was compensated for in remarkable ways through divine tutoring from on high.” I've always wondered what is meant by tutoring. I enjoyed Teryl Givens use of the term bricolage. It's an ugly sounding word, but it's an interesting concept. If bricolage Joseph was a religious genius as some have categorized him as, piecing together in the most clever of ways a religious philosophy that stands to some extent or another all the way to today; or he was tutored to, what we think of today, plagiarize or as it were rely on the disdainful "worldly knowledge" to at least appear prophetic. I'd say too many things give it away, and frankly things like polygamy make it all into a useless venture. I know...that's only my take. But, as it were, there are plenty of possibilities to choose from. Link to comment
smac97 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 38 minutes ago, Duncan said: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2020-06-27/president-nelson-mission-leadership-seminar-joseph-smith-187832 According to this recent address by President Nelson he is saying that Moroni visited Joseph Smith 20 times, I know about 3 or 4 times in 1823 and then the 4 yearly visits and that would be 8 but 12 other times? When was this? From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Moroni, Visitations of Visions of Joseph Smith From FAIR: Personages who appeared to Joseph Smith See also Opening the Heavens: Account of Divine Manifestations 1820-1844, edited by John W. Welch (available for download at the link). I have a hard copy of this book. Quite worth it, IMO. Thanks, -Smac 4 Link to comment
The Unclean Deacon Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 "Joseph Smith Saw Moroni 20 Times" Joseph Smith claimed he met a character he referred to as Moroni 20 times. and we use elevation emotion to verify such as historically true. Link to comment
2BizE Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Sounds too good to be true doesn’t it? Link to comment
Calm Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, 2BizE said: Sounds too good to be true doesn’t it? Are 20 visions any harder to believe than 1 vision? Link to comment
2BizE Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 26 minutes ago, Calm said: Are 20 visions any harder to believe than 1 vision? Yes it does. There is an ongoing issue with Mormon tradition/stories where they keep expanding. If you recall, early leaders didn’t even know about the First Vision. Brigham Young thought they visit of angels or Nephi/Moroni was the only vision of JS. This then expanded into multiple visitors and visions. Now the vision story has expanded to 18-20 visits by Moroni. In another 50 years, it will expand to 100 visits. Eventually, it will be taught that Joseph Smith was actually John the Baptist who baptized the savior. Eventually, the story may change to JS being the savior.... Look how quick faith-promoting stories have changed and taken a Life of their own. Examples: 1) John Taylor’s watch stopping a bullet. 2) The three boys who carried all the pioneers across the Sweetwater river. 3) Wilford Woodruff being visited by founding fathers 4) Elder Holland and the story of the Hell’s Angels biker 5) Many stories of the three Nephites... Mormons are notorious for telling and believing stories that grow into tall tales. Link to comment
TheTanakas Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 On 7/2/2020 at 8:49 AM, Duncan said: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2020-06-27/president-nelson-mission-leadership-seminar-joseph-smith-187832 According to this recent address by President Nelson he is saying that Moroni visited Joseph Smith 20 times, I know about 3 or 4 times in 1823 and then the 4 yearly visits and that would be 8 but 12 other times? When was this? Why no mention of keys in the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price? Link to comment
Duncan Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 54 minutes ago, TheTanakas said: Why no mention of keys in the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price? it doesn't mention Sudbury, Ontario either but I've learned to deal with it Link to comment
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