Robert F. Smith Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: If the people do it on a volunteer basis, why should it be banned. Its amazing that in America which is supposed to be the land of the free to have so many laws and so many things banned. Still, we must be very cautious about what we subject youth to. It reminds me of some of the horrendous anti-cult deprogramming evangelicals have used on minors.
Popular Post Daniel2 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Popular Post Posted January 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Calm said: You should have contacted FairMormon if you thought it relevances t to them. It sounds more like a shock technique given it is the first thing you list associated with him. I genuinely believe you’re misguided and your assumption is a tad over-sensitive. I didn’t post the link or the title for any “shock” factor. I’ve been actively posting here for over 15 years, and when I originally started posting, this literally WAS the “FAIR” message board... I know the name and skin has changed over the years, but it’s always seemed to me that many of the people have continued to post/monitor/moderate here that are in FAIR, so I thought I WAS bringing it to the same people here who run FAIR. Additionally, the case is often made that topics here should be of relevance to not only the church itself, but also LDS beliefs, culture, and/or practices. By placing the text and showing where readers u familiar with Matheson could hear and read his own words, I was attempting to provide context and how this news is relevant for the subjects discussed on the board. 11
Daniel2 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: If the people do it on a volunteer basis, why should it be banned. Its amazing that in America which is supposed to be the land of the free to have so many laws and so many things banned. For the same reasons that volunteers (even trained professional doctors or nurses) can’t practice or provide free unauthorized and potentially harmful medical procedures which violate professional ethical standards. The Hippocratic Oath says, “First, do no harm.” There are ethical standards governing the medical professions, including therapy, psychology, and psychiatry. Volunteers can’t just go out there and practice surgery or abortions or even give vaccines without proper training, licensing, and by abiding by the laws governing medical practice, especially when they have been identified as dangerous and harmful and doing more damage than benefit. Edited January 21, 2019 by Daniel2 3
Robert F. Smith Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, rockpond said: Homosexuality is not a "bad habit". Milo says it can be learnt, as it was normally in Classical Greece, and can then become a habit. It may not have been wise for male mentors to deliberately introduce all young men to the delights of homosexuality. Once learned, can one go back? The orthodox Jewish community and early Jewish Christians wisely resisted that aspect of Hellenization, which even included reversing traces of circumcision -- since Greek culture made it a policy to engage in sports nude..
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Daniel2 said: So, you’re saying you support the therapeutic methodologies David Matheson practiced and advocated for, as mentioned in this thread...? I'm saying you are lying about what those methodologies are.
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, sjdawg said: I'm so confused by this message. Why the dig at Daniel? He has been a patient and fair contributor to the board for a long time. He may have been an one point. He's recently been very aggressive and hostile. The fact that he just copied and pasted a link from a man like Wayne Besen tells me that hostility has only increased. That's like posting Ed Decker's work here and calling it fair. 1
sjdawg Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, kllindley said: I'm saying you are lying about what those methodologies are. Can you back this up? Can you show evidence that Daniel is lying? 4
Popular Post SeekingUnderstanding Posted January 21, 2019 Popular Post Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, kllindley said: He may have been an one point. He's recently been very aggressive and hostile. And what was your first comment if not (passive) aggressive and hostile? 7
sjdawg Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, kllindley said: He may have been an one point. He's recently been very aggressive and hostile. The fact that he just copied and pasted a link from a man like Wayne Besen tells me that hostility has only increased. That's like posting Ed Decker's work here and calling it fair. I'm not familiar with Wayne Besen. What discredits information he presents?
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: And what was your first comment if not (passive) aggressive and hostile? It is absolutely aggressive toward those who celebrate the destruction of a family and race to twist anything they can to mock anyone who tries to live the Gospel. 1
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, sjdawg said: Can you back this up? Can you show evidence that Daniel is lying? I can but I won't. Could/would you disprove lies about what happens in the temple? 1
SeekingUnderstanding Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, kllindley said: It is absolutely aggressive toward those who celebrate the destruction of a family and race to twist anything they can to mock anyone who tries to live the Gospel. So its okay to be aggressive in that case? But not okay to be aggressive if you hold an equally heart felt position that people like David cause real harm and death? 2
SeekingUnderstanding Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, kllindley said: I can but I won't. Could/would you disprove lies about what happens in the temple? Are you saying that gay conversion therapy is sacred similar to the religious rites in that occur in Latter-day Saint temples? 3
Robert F. Smith Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, SouthernMo said: While I generally do not like to attack ideas ad hominem - my perception and understanding of Milo’s views are that he likes to shock people. I’m not sure I trust him as an unbiased student of homosexuality and conversion therapy - despite the fact that he characterizes himself as gay. I’m not in a position where I can take his word for it, and accept it as fact. Yes, Jordan Peterson says that Milo is a trickster, and he does a good job of being controversial, but he is in keeping with psychological fact when he says that people can learn to be gay. Humans have very fluid gender attitudes, and appropriate grooming and active molestation of minors can habituate them to a variety of tactile, erotic responses which may not be inborn, and may even become controlling or obsessive-compulsive. Can they be unlearnt? Can a heterosexual man or woman who has spent years in prison on the down low just leave it behind when he/she is released? ETA: Milo has named the Roman Catholic priest who molested him when he was a youngster. Edited January 22, 2019 by Robert F. Smith 1
Daniel2 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, kllindley said: It is absolutely aggressive toward those who celebrate the destruction of a family and race to twist anything they can to mock anyone who tries to live the Gospel. Who here has “celebrated the destruction of a family” and/or “raced to mock anyone who tries to live the gospel”? CFR, please. On the other hand, it’s quite clear you’ve been aggressive towards me in this post. Edited January 21, 2019 by Daniel2 3
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: So its okay to be aggressive in that case? But not okay to be aggressive if you hold an equally heart felt position that people like David cause real harm and death? Where did I ever say that it wan't okay for Daniel to be aggressive? I simply pointed to his behavior when another poster claimed that he has always been patient and fair. 6 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Are you saying that gay conversion therapy is sacred similar to the religious rites in that occur in Latter-day Saint temples? I don't even know what gay conversion therapy is. I've never met anyone who practiced it. Do you have any references?
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Daniel2 said: Who here has “celebrated the destruction of a family” and/or “raced to mock anyone who tries to live the gospel”? CFR, please. Wayne Besen The man you glowingly quote as a hero for finding out about David's personal decisions through private Facebook hero.
Popular Post Daniel2 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Popular Post Posted January 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, kllindley said: I can but I won't. Could/would you disprove lies about what happens in the temple? I speak from my own first-hand experiences with David Mathewson and other first-hand accounts from those who I know, love, and trust. You claim you CAN disprove my own experiences and those others have shared with me, yet refuse to do so.....? Even if you won’t, how can you possible know or disprove the therapy sessions I experienced with David Matheson...?!? 5
Daniel2 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Edited January 21, 2019 by Daniel2 1
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: Who here has “celebrated the destruction of a family” and/or “raced to mock anyone who tries to live the gospel”? CFR, please. On the other hand, it’s quite clear you’ve been aggressive towards me in this post. I've been perfectly clear about that and owned it. Did you say anything about how it was sad that David's family was going through this? I am not going to apologize for being sick of the way you mock and distort what happens at Journey into Manhood. Either you know the truth and are intentionally lying, or you are just parroting what others have claimed. Either way, it's ridiculous.
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: I speak from my own first-hand experiences with David Mathewson and other first-hand accounts from those who I know, love, and trust. You claim you CAN disprove my own experiences and those others have shared with me, yet refuse to do so.....? Even if you won’t, how can you possible know or disprove the therapy sessions I experienced with David Matheson...?!? I intended nothing about your therapy sessions. Your comment was in response to Wayne's comment about camps.
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: You say you’ve pointed out my behavior which you imply has been “aggressive.” I must have missed that. What behavior have I exhibited that has been “aggressive”? When you claimed that teaching the Law of Chastity is killing people and that you were sick of pretending to respect people who wouldn't admit that, I think we left the non-aggressive realm. Have fun gloating. It must be great to be so smug.
SeekingUnderstanding Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, kllindley said: I don't even know what gay conversion therapy is. I've never met anyone who practiced it. Do you have any references? http://bfy.tw/Lu7F
Tacenda Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, kllindley said: It is absolutely aggressive toward those who celebrate the destruction of a family and race to twist anything they can to mock anyone who tries to live the Gospel. The gospel is suppose to be "the good news", maybe the church is the gospel to you?
kllindley Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: http://bfy.tw/Lu7F Got it. You have no idea. It's just a soundbite for you. 1
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