The White Stone and the Temple

[SettingDogStar]

Obviously this thread could involve things that are scared and cannot be discussed in really “open” way. However I have been to the temple a handful of times recently and, along with other things, have been trying to solve a little problem in my head.

Im curious if anyone can point to a blog, a quote from Joseph, or personal insight that can connect the White Stone to any section of the temple ritual. The Stone, of course, has the New Name written on it and that is a Key-Word, per Joseph’s sayings in section 130.

However when he preached/wrote this what was his intention behind it? Was it something that was supposed to be obvious to those initiated (cause it sure passed right over my head hahaha)? 

Maybe it’s glaringly obvious, but it has been  a little bug in my ear for awhile now. 

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

Obviously this thread could involve things that are scared and cannot be discussed in really “open” way. However I have been to the temple a handful of times recently and, along with other things, have been trying to solve a little problem in my head.

Im curious if anyone can point to a blog, a quote from Joseph, or personal insight that can connect the White Stone to any section of the temple ritual. The Stone, of course, has the New Name written on it and that is a Key-Word, per Joseph’s sayings in section 130.

However when he preached/wrote this what was his intention behind it? Was it something that was supposed to be obvious to those initiated (cause it sure passed right over my head hahaha)? 

Maybe it’s glaringly obvious, but it has been  a little bug in my ear for awhile now. 

“And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom”

D&C 130:11

The giving of the white stone would seem to be a future event.  While some future events have parellels in the temple ritual, this one does not seem to.

[SettingDogStar]

2 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

“And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom”

D&C 130:11

The giving of the white stone would seem to be a future event.  While some future events have parellels in the temple ritual, this one does not seem to.

I was thinking that too, except the temple itself seems to be (at least part) a projection of future of events. So with Joseph Smith’s specifically pointing out that the White Stone contains a “Key-Word” I only assumed that he was in reference to a portion of the temple. 

But perhaps you are right and I’m looking to deep into, which I’ve been guilty of far to often haha

[Alaris]

Looking too deep? We're commanded to seek out the mysteries and are promised we can receive them just as in ancient times. We are told we will lose what we have when we stop receiving and say we have enough. 

Think of the second and third signs. Stones are absolutely involved. 

I personally believe the receiving of the white stone was a past event for Ephraim. 

[mfbukowski]

9 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

 

Im curious if anyone can point to a blog, a quote from Joseph, or personal insight that can connect the White Stone to any section of the temple ritual. The Stone, of course, has the New Name written on it and that is a Key-Word, per Joseph’s sayings in section 130.

 

I think you just answered your own question.

The stone has the new name written on it and that is a key word

That is a connection.  What's your point?  Stones represent revelation.  Everything in the temple is revelation and then you receive a name that = the right to further revelation.  

Peter (Stone) was given a new name at the time Christ was speaking of the rock of revelation- he was the first prophet- the one through whom God gave revelation.  God gave revelation to the "Stone"

Then of course there is Revelation 2:17

Quote

17 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

So its also biblical

[SettingDogStar]

21 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Looking too deep? We're commanded to seek out the mysteries and are promised we can receive them just as in ancient times. We are told we will lose what we have when we stop receiving and say we have enough. 

Think of the second and third signs. Stones are absolutely involved. 

I personally believe the receiving of the white stone was a past event for Ephraim. 

Interesting thought, how did Ephraim already get their Stone? Like in pre-mortality?

Also, the second the third are also what I had in mind. I just couldn’t figure out (if any connection exists) as to what the stones purpose would be. 

When know it 

-Gives revelation fo higher kingdoms

-Has the New Name

-And those in the Celestial Kingdom get them.

So it seems that the Stone has obvious connection to the first sign, but not an exact connection (in my mind) to the others.

Edited November 29, 2018 by SettingDogStar

[mfbukowski]

5 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Looking too deep? We're commanded to seek out the mysteries and are promised we can receive them just as in ancient times. We are told we will lose what we have when we stop receiving and say we have enough. 

Think of the second and third signs. Stones are absolutely involved. 

I personally believe the receiving of the white stone was a past event for Ephraim. 

Good one!  We come as beggars before the Lord. 

Judges 7

Quote

 

4 And the Lord said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.

5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the Lord said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.

6 And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.

7 And the Lord said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place.

8 So the people took victuals in their hand, and their trumpets: and he sent all the rest of Israel every man unto his tent, and retained those three hundred men: and the host of Midian was beneath him in the valley.

 

 

[clarkgoble]

11 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Then of course there is Revelation 2:17

So its also biblical

It's worth noting the context of Rev 2:17 as well. While ostensibly that's addressing the churches in Asia minor it has two interesting features. First the churches are listed in a fashion such that one is going in a circle. Second the message to each church has the key phrase "he that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." That's an indicator that something "hidden" is going on likely tied to mysteries (in the technical sense of the term). You see the same phrase in Mark 4 & 7. Why does Jesus speak that way? "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." (Matt 13:11-13)

Part of these mysteries, I should add, is an enigmatic passage Mormons typically interpret as teaching the three degrees of glory. "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt 13:8-9)

In Rev 2 the interspersion is a short passage related to ritual and a short passage tied to the ritual but describing God and possibly teaching deification. There's also a "problem" with each church that might be tied uniquely to that physical church but may also have deeper meaning.

1. Ephesus (2:1-7) "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." "he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

2. Smyrna (2:8-11) "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." "These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

3. Pergamos (2:12-17) "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." "These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;"

4. Thyatira (2:18-29) "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." "who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;"

5. Sardis (3:1-6) "the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." "These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars"

6. Philadelphia (3:7-13) "I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"

7. Laodiceans (3:14-22) "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

 

While not exactly the same as our endowment, it's pretty close. Particularly if you think of the gestures and symbolically receiving tokens of kingship in the endowment that are acted out. You see elements of this in terms of the relics the Nephites maintained too. The liahona and sword of laban. While a staff isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon it too is a traditional token of kingship and is mentioned in the interspersion in Rev 2-3.

[Durangout]

In certain ancient societies, an election process occured to admit a new member into that society.  The person that was allowd into that society was given a white stone signifing that they had been “elected” to become a member of said group.  Thise who were not approved to koin were given a black stone.

many are called to become one of God’s family but few are choosen.

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

It's worth noting the context of Rev 2:17 as well. While ostensibly that's addressing the churches in Asia minor it has two interesting features. First the churches are listed in a fashion such that one is going in a circle. Second the message to each church has the key phrase "he that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." That's an indicator that something "hidden" is going on likely tied to mysteries (in the technical sense of the term). You see the same phrase in Mark 4 & 7. Why does Jesus speak that way? "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." (Matt 13:11-13)

Part of these mysteries, I should add, is an enigmatic passage Mormons typically interpret as teaching the three degrees of glory. "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt 13:8-9)

In Rev 2 the interspersion is a short passage related to ritual and a short passage tied to the ritual but describing God and possibly teaching deification. There's also a "problem" with each church that might be tied uniquely to that physical church but may also have deeper meaning.

1. Ephesus (2:1-7) "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." "he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

2. Smyrna (2:8-11) "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." "These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

3. Pergamos (2:12-17) "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." "These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;"

4. Thyatira (2:18-29) "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." "who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;"

5. Sardis (3:1-6) "the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." "These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars"

6. Philadelphia (3:7-13) "I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"

7. Laodiceans (3:14-22) "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

 

While not exactly the same as our endowment, it's pretty close. Particularly if you think of the gestures and symbolically receiving tokens of kingship in the endowment that are acted out. You see elements of this in terms of the relics the Nephites maintained too. The liahona and sword of laban. While a staff isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon it too is a traditional token of kingship and is mentioned in the interspersion in Rev 2-3.

Great points, all, thanks. Forget all the rotten things I've been saying about you recently. 👍

I really liked the 7 candles and the circle points.

Did you know that the Hindus and Buddhists and Catholics circumambulate in their temples/churches?

No that's not a bad word.

And in fact most world religions include circumambulation in some form.

No way old Joe made this stuff up.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about visit a temple that still does the endowment with four rooms.

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by mfbukowski

[mormonfool]

I have a lot of notes on this subject and intend to publish some of my findings in the next couple of years.

I recommend Joseph Smith's Seer Stones by MacKay and Frederick. From page 127:

Quote

There are numerous signs that Joseph Smith had not transcended his
use of seer stones in Nauvoo. For example, on 27 December 1841, Joseph
showed his seer stone to the Twelve Apostles,10 and Wilford Woodruff
mentioned that Joseph carried a seer stone throughout his life.11 He even
encouraged the Twelve Apostles to find their own seer stones and introduced
the concept of the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17 in the
temple endowment.

Divine and Illuminating Stones in Second Temple Judaism by Matthew J. Grey is a major, recent contribution.

 

[SettingDogStar]

5 hours ago, mormonfool said:

the concept of the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17 in the
temple endowment.

This right here, do you know the source the author uses for this information? Or is it taking context for section 130?

[clarkgoble]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

For those who don't know what I'm talking about visit a temple that still does the endowment with four rooms.

That's just Salt Lake and Cardston these days, isn't it?

 

[Alaris]

7 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

It's worth noting the context of Rev 2:17 as well. While ostensibly that's addressing the churches in Asia minor it has two interesting features. First the churches are listed in a fashion such that one is going in a circle. Second the message to each church has the key phrase "he that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." That's an indicator that something "hidden" is going on likely tied to mysteries (in the technical sense of the term). You see the same phrase in Mark 4 & 7. Why does Jesus speak that way? "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." (Matt 13:11-13)

Part of these mysteries, I should add, is an enigmatic passage Mormons typically interpret as teaching the three degrees of glory. "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt 13:8-9)

In Rev 2 the interspersion is a short passage related to ritual and a short passage tied to the ritual but describing God and possibly teaching deification. There's also a "problem" with each church that might be tied uniquely to that physical church but may also have deeper meaning.

1. Ephesus (2:1-7) "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." "he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

2. Smyrna (2:8-11) "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." "These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

3. Pergamos (2:12-17) "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." "These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;"

4. Thyatira (2:18-29) "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." "who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;"

5. Sardis (3:1-6) "the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." "These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars"

6. Philadelphia (3:7-13) "I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"

7. Laodiceans (3:14-22) "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

 

While not exactly the same as our endowment, it's pretty close. Particularly if you think of the gestures and symbolically receiving tokens of kingship in the endowment that are acted out. You see elements of this in terms of the relics the Nephites maintained too. The liahona and sword of laban. While a staff isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon it too is a traditional token of kingship and is mentioned in the interspersion in Rev 2-3.

Now you're talkin'  These seven (eight) promises of overcoming are central to my blog. The seven dispensations align to the seven promises perfectly in reverse order. The laws in the temple match perfectly beginning with the third promise. I could write pages on this, and have.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-seven-levels-of-mankind.html

The first promise aligns to salvation from physical death. The second aligns to salvation from spiritual death. The third aligns to Obedience (Moses), then Sacrifice (Abraham), then the Law of the Gospel (Noah), then Chastity (Enoch), and finally the Law of Consecration (Adam.)

The stone is promised upon overcoming the third trial. The stone is received by all who enter the Celestial Kingdom. What is required for Celestial entry? Baptism and obedience, the first law of heaven. Manna is a key word that aligns this promise to Moses' dispensation clearly. 

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." "These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;"

So the first sign in the temple aligns to the laws of obedience and sacrifice. This is who we were imho.

The second sign aligns to who we are now and the law of the Gospel. We've already received this stone and we're holding it in this sign (if that's not too overt.)  You can clearly see the law of the Gospel in practice by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Has there ever been such a missionary effort.

By the way, here is the eighth promise. These are sequential promises that build up to Godhood. Each dispensation head epitomizes their respective law. 

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[SettingDogStar]

8 hours ago, Alaris said:

We've already received this stone and we're holding it in this sign (if that's not too overt.) 

That was what I mainly thinking, though I didn’t know how to word it without revealing to much. However I’ve also heard that as a reference to each sign being similar to the movements of priest with oil (Concecrating, anointing, sealing, and calling down blessings). 

So would you say the White Stone is important to the endowment from beginning to the end?

 

I have read your blog and your ideas are interesting and admittedly I should probably skim it again to pick up more on what you’re attempting to communicate, i think there are some good jewels in there.

[clarkgoble]

5 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

That was what I mainly thinking, though I didn’t know how to word it without revealing to much. However I’ve also heard that as a reference to each sign being similar to the movements of priest with oil (Concecrating, anointing, sealing, and calling down blessings). 

So would you say the White Stone is important to the endowment from beginning to the end?

There's a sword, ball/stone, and staff symbolically given. Don't feel comfortably saying more than that. They're symbolic of the heavenly king/priest. They're very common ANE trappings and are also frequently found in heavenly ascent literature along with receiving new clothing for each level of the ascent. (Symbolic, such as in the Ascension of Isaiah, of a heavenly body of glory equal to the glory of the heaven one is in)

[Maidservant]

Birth, baptism/death, crucifixion, resurrection (rebirth)(of which union is integral).  (Chiasmus)

Your earth life is your white stone with your new name--because right now we are not who we really are, or were--yet, we still are, because this existence on earth is ritual, or ordinance.  Being in earth is not life, it is death.  We are the dead ones; we have been placed under the waters (although still be held on to).  We will be (re)raised to life.

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

That's just Salt Lake and Cardston these days, isn't it?

 

I am not talking necessarily about endowment presentations with live actors- LA moves between rooms but uses the film as well.  I think Idaho Falls does that as well- I think Manti as well- using actors

[clarkgoble]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I am not talking necessarily about endowment presentations with live actors- LA moves between rooms but uses the film as well.  I think Idaho Falls does that as well- I think Manti as well- using actors

Cardston has films but you move between rooms. The rooms were very ornate with tons of unique carved wood of different types. Extremely beautiful but made it impossible to do one room endowments without destroying all that artistry. I didn't know LA did the same thing. I checked and you're right Idaho Falls does that too. Apparently Manti is the only other temple that still does live. For some reason I thought they'd switched over to the films years ago.

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

There's a sword, ball/stone, and staff symbolically given. Don't feel comfortably saying more than that. They're symbolic of the heavenly king/priest. They're very common ANE trappings and are also frequently found in heavenly ascent literature along with receiving new clothing for each level of the ascent. (Symbolic, such as in the Ascension of Isaiah, of a heavenly body of glory equal to the glory of the heaven one is in)

Another aspect of this all is the similarities with symbols in the garments in shapes, creating a kind of semaphore code.   There are three dominant gestures used in different ways, one a sort of "V" shape formed by the hand, the "L" shape and a straight line "--"    Of course these are a straight line, a right angle and a shape called a "compass".  In certain cases the shapes are made vertically, sometimes horizontally

We also learn that these shapes correlate with certain temple covenants.

By physically combining these shapes in different gestures, one makes profound statements about how the covenants relate to each other.

They can be seen not unlike "letters" - and putting them indifferent combinations makes different words.  But these are not really "letters" and as highly ambiguous symbols thereby giving them the ability to suggest much more meaning to an attuned spirit than mere words would.

Scott Woodward brings up other interpretations of the facsimiles - and this drawing I think makes the point well.  We must understand that Joseph was taking this images at "face value" as the Lord used them to bring interpretations to his mind.  Of course we know the Book of Abraham is not a literal translation and people who do not understand this have made much of this figure which to me simply illustrates how poorly they understand revelation.

Note the uplifted arm in this illustration/interpretation of the figure itself- and just in that one arm one has a compass and arguably two squares.  There are other symbols in the right "arm" as here interpreted.   The other figures make similar shapes and symbols with their "arms"

I had studied these facsimilies before attending the temple for the first time and nearly fell of my chair when I saw what I saw in the temple

And of course this interpretation is intended- the interpretation of this figure in the BOA makes it abundantly clear that THIS sort of interpretation is what the Lord inspired Joseph to write.

The facsimilies are a never-ending dictionary of temple symbology "for those with the ears to hear".  There has been discussion about eliminating the facsimilies and /or even the Book of Abraham from the canon because of the well known alleged "translation errors".   I think this move would be pure idiocy.  I cannot think of a portion of scripture I find more important!!

The Lord's instruction about this figure make it perfectly clear:

Quote

 

Fig. 7. Represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood; as, also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham, in the form of a dove.

 

 

 

http://www.scottwoodward.org/scripture/PGP_Abraham_facsimile2_interpretation.html

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

There's a sword, ball/stone, and staff symbolically given. Don't feel comfortably saying more than that. They're symbolic of the heavenly king/priest. They're very common ANE trappings and are also frequently found in heavenly ascent literature along with receiving new clothing for each level of the ascent. (Symbolic, such as in the Ascension of Isaiah, of a heavenly body of glory equal to the glory of the heaven one is in)

One also goes from the "high ground" of the Garden to the vale of tears in the lone and dreary world, one is identified with Christ and we feel very directly the experience of "doubting Thomas" all in hand signals

[Alaris]

7 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

That was what I mainly thinking, though I didn’t know how to word it without revealing to much. However I’ve also heard that as a reference to each sign being similar to the movements of priest with oil (Concecrating, anointing, sealing, and calling down blessings). 

So would you say the White Stone is important to the endowment from beginning to the end?

 

I have read your blog and your ideas are interesting and admittedly I should probably skim it again to pick up more on what you’re attempting to communicate, i think there are some good jewels in there.

Thank you! 

I'm glad you asked about the stones relevance throughout the endowment. I just started a thread on ldsfreedomforum.com on the three degrees of glory and how the priests introduce us to the Lord and the princes / kings introduce us to the father. From the perspective of the signs and tokens the third align to the priest level to which we are anointed. The fourth aligns to the prince / King level. So, if the priests indeed do not have the full presence of the father at that point then it makes sense the third sign accounts for the stone whereas the fourth sign is about obtaining an audience with the father. This is why the Lord (King) Himself presents the final token. He is preparing you to return to the Father. Likewise, the stone is no longer needed at the prince /king level because this is where the soul reaches those kingdoms with those things of which the white stone had been revealing. The father is revealed. Make sense? 

Just look at the sixth promise of overcoming. The promised reward is the name of Jesus Father and Jesus new name as an eternal Elohim. 

Joseph Smith was a prince who saw the father whereas the presence of James and John is why the father was veiled at the Mount of Transfiguration and why Peter, James and John never interact with Elohim directly in the endowment. 

[Alaris]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Another aspect of this all is the similarities with symbols in the garments in shapes, creating a kind of semaphore code.   There are three dominant gestures used in different ways, one a sort of "V" shape formed by the hand, the "L" shape and a straight line "--"    Of course these are a straight line, a right angle and a shape called a "compass".  In certain cases the shapes are made vertically, sometimes horizontally

We also learn that these shapes correlate with certain temple covenants.

By physically combining these shapes in different gestures, one makes profound statements about how the covenants relate to each other.

They can be seen not unlike "letters" - and putting them indifferent combinations makes different words.  But these are not really "letters" and as highly ambiguous symbols thereby giving them the ability to suggest much more meaning to an attuned spirit than mere words would.

Scott Woodward brings up other interpretations of the facsimiles - and this drawing I think makes the point well.  We must understand that Joseph was taking this images at "face value" as the Lord used them to bring interpretations to his mind.  Of course we know the Book of Abraham is not a literal translation and people who do not understand this have made much of this figure which to me simply illustrates how poorly they understand revelation.

Note the uplifted arm in this illustration/interpretation of the figure itself- and just in that one arm one has a compass and arguably two squares.  There are other symbols in the right "arm" as here interpreted.   The other figures make similar shapes and symbols with their "arms"

I had studied these facsimilies before attending the temple for the first time and nearly fell of my chair when I saw what I saw in the temple

And of course this interpretation is intended- the interpretation of this figure in the BOA makes it abundantly clear that THIS sort of interpretation is what the Lord inspired Joseph to write.

The facsimilies are a never-ending dictionary of temple symbology "for those with the ears to hear".  There has been discussion about eliminating the facsimilies and /or even the Book of Abraham from the canon because of the well known alleged "translation errors".   I think this move would be pure idiocy.  I cannot think of a portion of scripture I find more important!!

The Lord's instruction about this figure make it perfectly clear:

http://www.scottwoodward.org/scripture/PGP_Abraham_facsimile2_interpretation.html

 

The sixth level aligns to the priests to which we are anointed who are the seraphim of Isaiah 6. In this chapter Isaiah participates in an ordinance that basically says welcome to the level where you will have eyes to see and ears to hear whereas the souls over which you preside will be blind deaf and dumb until the Lord returns. 

In Matthew 13, the Lord Jesus Christ cites Isaiah 6 and tells His apostles they have ears to hear, confirming they are of this level. 

I discovered recently the third token pertains to the Holy Ghost. The fact that the sign of the dove is present here and this level of "seeing" may be represented here by a wedjat eye / eye of horus which points to the pineal gland... The gland in the brain attributed to the third eye or visions... These are all amazing confirmations to me. 

This image to me is someone aligned to the second token in their eternal journey which is aligned to the law of the gospel... So basically Ephraim. Our temple ceremony is tailored to souls of this level of progression. And here is the holy ghost preparing them for that next sign, token, and covenant. These are confirmations upon confirmations of deep, beautiful, eternal truth. 

The holy ghost, imho, is the angel who stopped Elkenah, who stayed Isaac's sacrifice, and is the executor of the Abrahamic covenant. He is on multiple facsimiles as he appears as the angel who saves Abraham from Elkenah and is represented by a bird as well, though he may be a Falcon in that one.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Alaris

[RevTestament]

On 11/28/2018 at 8:43 PM, SettingDogStar said:

Obviously this thread could involve things that are scared and cannot be discussed in really “open” way. However I have been to the temple a handful of times recently and, along with other things, have been trying to solve a little problem in my head.

Im curious if anyone can point to a blog, a quote from Joseph, or personal insight that can connect the White Stone to any section of the temple ritual. The Stone, of course, has the New Name written on it and that is a Key-Word, per Joseph’s sayings in section 130.

However when he preached/wrote this what was his intention behind it? Was it something that was supposed to be obvious to those initiated (cause it sure passed right over my head hahaha)? 

Maybe it’s glaringly obvious, but it has been  a little bug in my ear for awhile now. 

The white stone is revelation which will become scripture, so it is basically impossible to receive it in the temple. 

[SettingDogStar]

16 hours ago, Alaris said:

Joseph Smith was a prince who saw the father whereas the presence of James and John is why the father was veiled at the Mount of Transfiguration and why Peter, James and John never interact with Elohim directly in the endowment. 

I can see this, since James and John seem to sorta disappear from the endowment after a certain point. It’s curious to note (and I could be wrong) that Joseph did not originally include Peter, James, and John in his version. 

To be honest I’ve heard this in a couple of publications but I can’t find the source for where they got their info.

Edit: it would seem that they got their information from Heber C. Kimballs diary who served as a temple transcriber. In the first sessions done there is no mention of the 3 Apostles, and then two days later it seems they were added with some more narrative drama. 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by SettingDogStar