One third of Millennial Mormons who go on a mission are returning early

[Avatar4321]

I don’t have any great mission stories. Went to California. Was out a few months and got incredibly sick and was sent home after I lost about forty pounds. Spent another few months recouperating.

i did help bring a young lady into the church online during that time. She has always struggled and I think she is going to be leaving the Church because she can’t let go of her politics to let the gospel fully change her.

i did meet one young man she shared the gospel with. He went on a mission to Eastern Europe I believe. I am glad he has been faithful.

there was a wars in my old stake who ended up baptizing around 500+ people in a year and a half. It was amazing to see.

the desire of my heart is to share the gospel but I can’t even get my wife interested.

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I think she is going to be leaving the Church because she can’t let go of her politics to let the gospel fully change her.

I've seen that happen more than once. It always makes me really sad.

[RevTestament]

On 10/5/2018 at 7:20 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Can you explain this? I've never lived anywhere that we couldn't teach and baptise Muslims, including Indonesia.

Traditionally Indonesian Muslims are reasonably peaceable people. Among the nicest Muslims in the world, so including Indonesia is not saying anything really. Most Indonesians have not really been taught Sharia, and to put it bluntly are really ignorant of not only the Hadith, but even the Quran. However, the Wahhabi sect has been trying to introduce these materials into Indonesia.

It seems the largest issue with killing those who leave Islam is going to occur with Arab Muslims of the Middle East, and some in North Africa. So, we are talking for example, Palestine.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

It seems the largest issue with killing those who leave Islam is going to occur with Arab Muslims of the Middle East, and some in North Africa. So, we are talking for example, Palestine.

But even if such a thing is going to happen, it's going to happen in the Middle East, not here. That's why our local policy is not to baptise Muslims who are temporary residents and have to return to a nation that actually observes Islamic Law. Permanent residents and those who come from nations that protect religious liberty are fine.

Interestingly, one of my good mates is currently a student from the United Arab Emirates. He is a strictly devout Muslim who thinks his entire family is hell-bound. His favourite people to hang out with? Latter-day Saints. He's come to church with me a number of times and even started taking the sacrament. I don't know if he'll ever convert, but he's going to be a good friend of the Church for the rest of his life. He has said many times over that we're the kindest, most religiously honest people he's ever met.

[RevTestament]

32 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

But even if such a thing is going to happen, it's going to happen in the Middle East, not here. That's why our local policy is not to baptise Muslims who are temporary residents and have to return to a nation that actually observes Islamic Law. Permanent residents and those who come from nations that protect religious liberty are fine.

Interestingly, one of my good mates is currently a student from the United Arab Emirates. He is a strictly devout Muslim who thinks his entire family is hell-bound. His favourite people to hang out with? Latter-day Saints. He's come to church with me a number of times and even started taking the sacrament. I don't know if he'll ever convert, but he's going to be a good friend of the Church for the rest of his life. He has said many times over that we're the kindest, most religiously honest people he's ever met.

I find most Muslims to be very earnest people, but they are also very scared to leave their religion - either for their personal safety, or for causing family dishonor. It's really sad to me that such beautiful people are locked in this religion. 

It is wonderful that your friend sees the beauty of LDS people - I guess you can now start calling yourselves saints again - and maybe he will really believe it! However, I caution about his partaking of the sacrament. It's hard to image a Muslim doing so "worthily." 3 Nephi 18:29.

[rchorse]

My mission was one of the most important experiences in my life, but it was also one of the most unpleasant and difficult ones. I served in Argentina, where baptisms are common. In my mission, the area presidency and mission president decided to make it a "rule" that we had to baptize someone every week and told us that if we didn't baptize every week, we were sinning and needed to repent. I had never experienced real, true depression until my mission.

I was very conscientious, hard-working, and obedient. But it was never good enough. I was actually told multiple times on my mission that doing my best wasn't good enough. All that mattered was that I was meeting the (completely ridiculous) expectations. I was and am an extreme introvert. Tracting was torture for me, but I did it anyway, usually for 8+ hours a day. I baptized roughly once every other month. I could have baptized every week if I were willing to baptize people who would never show up to church again, but I couldn't bring myself to do that.

Luckily, I gained a testimony several years before my mission, so it wasn't really a crisis of faith for me. It did take me about 18 months on my mission before the Lord told me powerfully that He was happy with my efforts and that was all that mattered. The last 6 months of my mission were significantly better. 

Having said all of that, I have always been glad I served a mission and stuck with it to the end. The lessons I learned about imperfect (though sincere) priesthood leaders, my best efforts being enough, and that only the Lord's approval matters have helped me significantly in my life. I had to relearn those lessons as a somewhat older single and as a young bishop, but my mission was key in allowing me to do so. My mission and subsequent callings have also gradually helped me to partially overcome my natural shyness and introversion. I still have to pace myself with talking to people I don't know or don't know well, but I am signifcantly better than when I was younger.

I don't regret going for a second and would recommend it to anyone. But I also think it's important to go into it prepared and with eyes wide open as to how difficult it can be. It's also important, in my opinion, to not promote missions as fun or exciting trips to experience life and the world. You're there to serve, and serving the Lord, while rewarding, can also be extremely difficult, even to the point of the Lord asking you to do the very things that are hardest for you.

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I find most Muslims to be very earnest people, but they are also very scared to leave their religion ...

I have no experience with this fear you are describing. At all. The most recent member of my ward to be baptised was a Muslim. She lives with her brother (a Muslim and a good mate of mine) and her sister-in-law (a very devout Muslim). Her conversion was marked by the typical questions, spiritual wrestling for answers, etc., but not by fear for any reason. She's fully aware that now she can no longer return to her homeland in the Middle East. That doesn't bother her in the least; there's a reason she migrated from there to a nation that secures and protects her core liberties.

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I guess you can now start calling yourselves saints again ...

I've never stopped calling us Saints. Have you?

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I caution about his partaking of the sacrament. It's hard to image a Muslim doing so "worthily."

I can't imagine what would automatically disqualify a Muslim in your mind.

Elder Groberg in General Conference:

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What does it mean to partake of the sacrament worthily? Or how do we know if we are unworthy?

If we desire to improve (which is to repent) and are not under priesthood restriction, then, in my opinion, we are worthy.

On what basis would I assume that my friend is 'unworthy'?

Edited October 10, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[RevTestament]

3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I have no experience with this fear you are describing. At all. The most recent member of my ward to be baptised was a Muslim. She lives with her brother (a Muslim and a good mate of mine) and her sister-in-law (a very devout Muslim). Her conversion was marked by the typical questions, spiritual wrestling for answers, etc., but not by fear for any reason. She's fully aware that now she can no longer return to her homeland in the Middle East. That doesn't bother her in the least; there's a reason she migrated from there to a nation that secures and protects her core liberties.

I've never stopped calling us Saints. Have you?

I can't imagine what would automatically disqualify a Muslim in your mind.

Elder Groberg in General Conference:

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What does it mean to partake of the sacrament worthily? Or how do we know if we are unworthy?

If we desire to improve (which is to repent) and are not under priesthood restriction, then, in my opinion, we are worthy.

On what basis would I assume that my friend is 'unworthy'?

 

Muslims do not believe in repentance, nor the power of Jesus Christ to grant repentance. 

On Muslims fearing conversion - the following video speaks a little of it, but his earliest ones speak of his torment over leaving Islam - how that would destroy his family, and not only his cultural honor, but his family's honor. Not to mention his fear of burning in hell forever. There are numerous Muslim's with similar stories. 

Note that Nabeel came from a peaceful minority sect of Islam, but still experienced a great deal of pain and reluctance over his decision to leave Islam. I do not know where your Muslims investigators are coming from. Indonesian Muslims probably do not experience the same extent of shame, reluctance, and fear about a decision to leave Islam as most Arabic Muslims do.

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Muslims do not believe in repentance, nor the power of Jesus Christ to grant repentance. 

The first half of this sentence is demonstrably untrue. Muslims absolutely believe in repentance. And divine forgiveness.

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On Muslims fearing conversion - the following video speaks a little of it ...

I don't want to discount the personal experience of one man. At the same time, I don't want to privilege his personal experience over that of many Muslims and former Muslims whom I know personally.

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I do not know where your Muslims investigators are coming from.

We currently have four former Muslims in our ward, two from Iran, one from Pakistan and one from Malaysia. Iran and Pakistan both call themselves Islamic republics. Malaysia is considered an Islamic state. The Pakistani brother actually joined the Church in Pakistan. The rest were baptised in our ward.

I don't know the pre-conversion lives of all stake members, but I do personally know another former Muslim in our stake. He was born in Lebanon. His entire family became Latter-day Saints when this brother was still in primary school.