LDSSA kicked-Off U of Iowa campus

[Okrahomer]

See here.  The Latter-day Saints Student Association (LDSSA) at the University of Iowa (along with several other faith-based student groups) was deregistered recently, because the University determined that LDSSA discriminated against LGBT students.  Two of the groups have now sued the University for attempting to interfere with religious belief/practice.

It will be interesting to see how this will be resolved.

 

 

[bluebell]

If they weren't letting LGBT students join, then I agree that that's discrimination.  But, I don't see how a university can hope to prove discrimination based on someone's beliefs about SSM.

[Jeanne]

Huh...until I know more..I say that perhaps LDSSA is being welcomed to  a world that others have been in for a long time.  No judgement..just interested.  I do believe in fairness.

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

Huh...until I know more..I say that perhaps LDSSA is being welcomed to  a world that others have been in for a long time.  No judgement..just interested.  I do believe in fairness.

You think that LDS students in Iowa haven't had experience with a world that doesn't like them because of their beliefs until now?  

[Okrahomer]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If they weren't letting LGBT students join, then I agree that that's discrimination.  But, I don't see how a university can hope to prove discrimination based on someone's beliefs about SSM.

I think it has more to do with who is eligible for leadership positions.  From the article:

"In February 2017, a gay student filed one [lawsuit] against Business Leaders in Christ [a registered on-campus student group], explaining that he'd been barred from a leadership position since he wouldn't affirm the Christian group's statement of faith, which included the claim that only married, heterosexual couples should have sex. After some back and forth with members, school officials deregistered Business Leaders in Christ."

"When a voluntary student organization chooses to become a registered student organization, it must adhere to the mission of the university, the UI's policies and procedures, and all local, state and federal laws," Bassett said. Deregistered groups cannot access school funds, reserve on-campus facilities or participate in student organization fairs."

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

I think it has more to do with who is eligible for leadership positions.  From the article:

"In February 2017, a gay student filed one [lawsuit] against Business Leaders in Christ [a registered on-campus student group], explaining that he'd been barred from a leadership position since he wouldn't affirm the Christian group's statement of faith, which included the claim that only married, heterosexual couples should have sex. After some back and forth with members, school officials deregistered Business Leaders in Christ."

"When a voluntary student organization chooses to become a registered student organization, it must adhere to the mission of the university, the UI's policies and procedures, and all local, state and federal laws," Bassett said. Deregistered groups cannot access school funds, reserve on-campus facilities or participate in student organization fairs."

That makes sense.

Though I'll never understand why someone would even want to be a part of an organization who's core values or beliefs fundamentally differed from their own.

[Okrahomer]

Just now, bluebell said:

That makes sense.

Though I'll never understand why someone would even want to be a part of an organization who's core values or beliefs fundamentally differed from their own.

I don't think I get it either, but it's a "thing."  I imagine what's happening here is somewhat analogous to the young LDS woman in California who is suing because she was not allowed to serve in a leadership position of the "Christian Athletes" group at her high school--when the group sponsors "determined" that she was not really a "christian."  I suspect she knew this from the outset, and she wanted to find a way to challenge the bias.  In this U of Iowa case, it sounds like the University was kind of caught off guard and didn't realize or think about how difficult it would be to enforce non-discrimination for LGBT on the one hand; while not creating a discrimination issue for religious students on the other?  From the article:

"The University of Iowa respects the rights of students, faculty and staff to practice the religion of their choice," said Anne Bassett, the University of Iowa's media relations director, in a statement released earlier this year."  

"The ongoing conflict, as well as related legislative debates, has religious freedom advocates and university officials scrambling to find a solution that works for all students. College should be about learning and making new connections, not appearing in court, Blomberg said.

"These students are students. They have better things to do with their time than fight their own administration," he said.

[Okrahomer]

A potential solution?  (also from the article):

"Schools can avoid confusion and court appearances by creating policies that respect the unique status of faith-based and other ideological clubs, Glenn said. The 1st Amendment Partnership advocates for school policies that target unjust discrimination and avoid penalizing an organization for its sincerely held beliefs."

"South Dakota has a really good policy that says if applying the human rights policy would negate your purpose for having your club at all, then you don't have to apply it that way," Glenn said."

[Anijen]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

That makes sense.

Though I'll never understand why someone would even want to be a part of an organization who's core values or beliefs fundamentally differed from their own.

I think they are actively seeking denial for litigation purposes. It is not that they want in and participate, but want to take them to court. imo

 

[Storm Rider]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

That makes sense.

Though I'll never understand why someone would even want to be a part of an organization who's core values or beliefs fundamentally differed from their own.

Bluebell, I don't think for a moment that the individual seeking an office in the group was serious about membership and/or leadership in the organization. However, this individual was serious about playing the game of shutting down any organization that has any religious beliefs that call the gay lifestyle a sin. 

[Prof]

9 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Bluebell, I don't think for a moment that the individual seeking an office in the group was serious about membership and/or leadership in the organization. However, this individual was serious about playing the game of shutting down any organization that has any religious beliefs that call the gay lifestyle a sin. 

Agreed. Just a ploy to bring negative attention to the group. Sadly those are the tactics that are currently used. Sadder still, they are often effective.

[carbon dioxide]

11 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

See here.  The Latter-day Saints Student Association (LDSSA) at the University of Iowa (along with several other faith-based student groups) was deregistered recently, because the University determined that LDSSA discriminated against LGBT students.  Two of the groups have now sued the University for attempting to interfere with religious belief/practice.

It will be interesting to see how this will be resolved.

 

 

Unlike LBGT issues, religious issues actually are specifically protected in the Bill of Rights.  I would sue immediately.

[mnn727]

On 8/10/2018 at 12:06 PM, bluebell said:

That makes sense.

Though I'll never understand why someone would even want to be a part of an organization who's core values or beliefs fundamentally differed from their own.

They don't -- they just want to shut it down. Happens all the time.

[Gray]

On 8/10/2018 at 5:55 PM, Storm Rider said:

Bluebell, I don't think for a moment that the individual seeking an office in the group was serious about membership and/or leadership in the organization. However, this individual was serious about playing the game of shutting down any organization that has any religious beliefs that call the gay lifestyle a sin. 

That's quite the assumption.

[Okrahomer]

If you're interested, this article from Courthouse News gives a good summary of the backstory.

“Business Leaders in Christ, or BLinC, acknowledges that it denied its member Marcus Miller a leadership role in 2016 after he said he intended to pursue same-sex relationships. But it denies that it did so because of his sexual orientation.”

“It says it welcomes gay members but it decided that Miller was ineligible to become a leader because he was pursuing relationships “inconsistent” with the group’s beliefs on sexual conduct.”

[mnn727]

On 8/16/2018 at 7:25 AM, Gray said:

That's quite the assumption.

Why?  Thats the goal of activists.

Edited August 17, 2018 by mnn727

[Gray]

2 hours ago, mnn727 said:

Why?  Thats the goal of activists.

That's awfully cynical. Not everyone you disagree with is acting in bad faith.

[Storm Rider]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:25 AM, Gray said:

That's quite the assumption.

Yeah, common sense has sort of lost.....well let's just say it is not being used anymore. No, Jenny, that is not an elephant. I don't know why you would call it an elephant. It is....hmm, well it is just a really big animal with rather large ears, a long, very long, limber nose, and four, large flat feet. But, no, that is not an elephant because we are not supposed to ever identify the elephant in the room.  

[mnn727]

18 hours ago, Gray said:

That's awfully cynical. Not everyone you disagree with is acting in bad faith.

I said "Activists" I did not say someone I disagree with. Simple FACT: an activist tries to force a change.

[Gray]

5 hours ago, mnn727 said:

I said "Activists" I did not say someone I disagree with. Simple FACT: an activist tries to force a change.

Why assume that someone is an activist simply because they are not a Christian fundamentalist?

[mnn727]

21 hours ago, Gray said:

Why assume that someone is an activist simply because they are not a Christian fundamentalist?

We are talking about  people whose purpose is to shut down an organization.

[Gray]

18 hours ago, mnn727 said:

We are talking about  people whose purpose is to shut down an organization.

CFR

[Walden]

On 8/10/2018 at 10:06 AM, bluebell said:

That makes sense.

Though I'll never understand why someone would even want to be a part of an organization who's core values or beliefs fundamentally differed from their own.

Is your comment in regard to the gay student attempting to be included in the Christian organization, against that organizations's beliefs, or the Christian organization trying to be part of the university community while espousing beliefs that go against the university's mission?

 

[bluebell]

15 hours ago, Walden said:

Is your comment in regard to the gay student attempting to be included in the Christian organization, against that organizations's beliefs, or the Christian organization trying to be part of the university community while espousing beliefs that go against the university's mission?

 

My comment was based on this-

"In February 2017, a gay student filed one [lawsuit] against Business Leaders in Christ [a registered on-campus student group], explaining that he'd been barred from a leadership position since he wouldn't affirm the Christian group's statement of faith, which included the claim that only married, heterosexual couples should have sex. After some back and forth with members, school officials deregistered Business Leaders in Christ."

The gay student was already allowed to be included in the Christian organization, but he wasn't allowed to be a leader because he wouldn't agree with the organization's teachings against SSM.  I don't understand why someone who supports SSM would want to be a leader in an organization that teaches against it.

[Gray]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My comment was based on this-

"In February 2017, a gay student filed one [lawsuit] against Business Leaders in Christ [a registered on-campus student group], explaining that he'd been barred from a leadership position since he wouldn't affirm the Christian group's statement of faith, which included the claim that only married, heterosexual couples should have sex. After some back and forth with members, school officials deregistered Business Leaders in Christ."

The gay student was already allowed to be included in the Christian organization, but he wasn't allowed to be a leader because he wouldn't agree with the organization's teachings against SSM.  I don't understand why someone who supports SSM would want to be a leader in an organization that teaches against it.

Perhaps as a Christian he thought the point of Christianity was preaching Christ, not railing against gay people. The name of the group after all is Business Leaders in Christ, not Business Leaders against Gay People.