Glenn101 Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 18 hours ago, Gray said: I see what you're saying. Some people will selectively pick out stories that teach bad morality and say those are the ones not to be taken literally. I'm not selective like that. Whether a story in the Bible happened or not, to me is best judged by historical criteria, not theological criteria, at least in my worldview. For example, I have no moral qualms with the story of Jesus being interred in the donated tomb. It's a beautiful story. But historically it's unlikely. None of the stories in the Bible can be taken at face value as having happened as written or having happened at all. For me that's not the point. The stories are just the vehicle. The theology comes into how we interpret the stories, and what we conclude about God from them. Gray, we are actually pretty much on the same page as to how we should treat people. As far as the scriptures go, I realize that there are things in them that do not fit well with our current understanding of science and history. But I believe that at some point we will not be seeing through that glass darkly and all things that we do not understand now will be made manifest to us. I believe in the literal restoration of the Gospel and in Joseph Smith as a prophet. After the experiences that I had had, I have to evaluate everything spiritually before I do so intellectually. And I guess that is where we differ. Thanks for a cordial discussion. Glenn 2
Gray Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Glenn101 said: Gray, we are actually pretty much on the same page as to how we should treat people. As far as the scriptures go, I realize that there are things in them that do not fit well with our current understanding of science and history. But I believe that at some point we will not be seeing through that glass darkly and all things that we do not understand now will be made manifest to us. I believe in the literal restoration of the Gospel and in Joseph Smith as a prophet. After the experiences that I had had, I have to evaluate everything spiritually before I do so intellectually. And I guess that is where we differ. Thanks for a cordial discussion. Glenn Thank you! Always a pleasure 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) On 6/2/2018 at 4:37 PM, Marginal Gains said: Arranging for Black people to perform in front of the unapologetic White Church leaders as a celebration of the end of a racial ban is a symbolism that I find jarring. It must be exceedingly unpleasant to see people whom you need to be angry and offended appearing genuinely joyful instead. I'm sorry you had to endure that. Edited June 8, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan 4
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Posted June 8, 2018 On 6/3/2018 at 1:10 AM, cinepro said: I didn't watch the whole thing (I'll just politely say that it wasn't my style and much of it reminded me too much of the "Brand New Year" fiasco from 10 years ago), but I was impressed by the choice to have Gladys Knight sing "Somewhere" from West Side Story. That was unexpectedly brave. We just got a chance to finish watching the second half this evening. Afterwards, I asked my African housemate how he understood the lyrics that you found 'unexpectedly brave'. He said, 'That's exactly what it's like finding the Church! You spend your whole life thinking that somewhere there must be something better, where you can have a new life and feel like you fit in. Then when I found the Church, I found that place. It changed my whole life completely. This is my home. I never had anything like that before'. I have a feeling you and he may have understood the inclusion of this song somewhat differently... 5
cinepro Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: We just got a chance to finish watching the second half this evening. Afterwards, I asked my African housemate how he understood the lyrics that you found 'unexpectedly brave'. He said, 'That's exactly what it's like finding the Church! You spend your whole life thinking that somewhere there must be something better, where you can have a new life and feel like you fit in. Then when I found the Church, I found that place. It changed my whole life completely. This is my home. I never had anything like that before'. I have a feeling you and he may have understood the inclusion of this song somewhat differently... I guess I'm looking at it from the context in which it was written and intended in the play (West Side Story). It's sung by Maria and Tony as a song of hope that they can find a place that will accept them, because their current situation and culture won't accept them. The song is called "Somewhere", not "Here." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SQ4ogstDVE Then at the end of the play/movie, it's sung by Maria as Tony lays dying, shot because their current situation can't accept their relationship, and they had planned on leaving to find a better place. It's not a song saying "Hooray! We found this wonderful place!" It's a song of mourning. Has your African housemate ever seen West Side Story? Because that context might make a difference in how the song is understood. There are probably a thousand happy songs celebrating "how great things are now" (in a major key and not a minor key) that could have been chosen. "Somewhere" is not one of those songs. Edited June 8, 2018 by cinepro 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 9, 2018 Posted June 9, 2018 11 hours ago, cinepro said: Has your African housemate ever seen West Side Story? No, he’s never even heard of it. I have heard the title before but couldn’t tell you anything about plot or name a single song. No doubt that colours my interpretation as well. I was immediately reminded of my experience working on a small Caribbean island where every single church was segregated by race bar one. In our little LDS chapel, black, white and brown were a single family, so mixed up that it took me weeks to figure out which kids belonged to whom. For the local Saints, all of whom had converted in the previous 15 years, they all knew that craving for a place where people really are one. Having found it hadn’t erased the memory of everything that had gone before and everything that was still the reality outside the comforting walls of our local Zion. 3
mfbukowski Posted June 9, 2018 Posted June 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: No, he’s never even heard of it. I have heard the title before but couldn’t tell you anything about plot or name a single song. No doubt that colours my interpretation as well. I was immediately reminded of my experience working on a small Caribbean island where every single church was segregated by race bar one. In our little LDS chapel, black, white and brown were a single family, so mixed up that it took me weeks to figure out which kids belonged to whom. For the local Saints, all of whom had converted in the previous 15 years, they all knew that craving for a place where people really are one. Having found it hadn’t erased the memory of everything that had gone before and everything that was still the reality outside the comforting walls of our local Zion. My son served a mission in Mississippi. He said in some towns LDS Wards were the only integrated congregations That was only 12 years ago. 1
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