Pope Francis and the "Fortunate Fall"

[blueglass]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:00 PM, blueglass said:

The god-making theodicy is a challenge.

god making reminds me too much of decker and the anti flick he made, I'm trying to refer to Irenaeus and soul making theodicy.  

[pogi]

24 minutes ago, blueglass said:

Pres Nelson refers to Nibley's series of ensign articles in the 90's on the atonement here, "In Hebrew, the basic word for atonement is kaphar, a verb that means “to cover” or “to forgive.”19"  

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/10/the-atonement?lang=eng

John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin."

That is a great talk, thanks for sharing!   

I love the symbolism in the covering given to Adam and Eve, in how the covering points directly to the sacrificial atonement of the Savior. The Lord himself provided the covering, the first sacrificial animal, pointing to the ultimate and last sacrifice.  "And the Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them."(Genesis 3:21).  Then there are the poetic words of Isaiah: 

"I will rejoice greatly in the Lord,

My soul will exult in my God;

For He has clothed me with garments of salvation,

He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness,

As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland,

And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels." (Isaiah 61:10).

Compare his covering to the covering that we provide ourselves (the masks that I spoke of above) in hiding: "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away" (Isaiah 64:6).

Interesting that he compares our death to the withering of a leaf, which points back to the covering made by man in the garden.  It is not an enduring covering like the savior can provide.

1 hour ago, blueglass said:

Whereas if you deny Christ and the atonement then you will find yourself naked and exposed and cry for the rocks to cover your sins:

Alma 12:14 "For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence."

That is a great scripture which points to the root of toxic shame, causing us to want to hide from the Lord.  That is exactly how Adam must have felt in hiding, but his ultimate faith in stepping into the light is what led to his salvation - just like all of us.