Genetic evidence that American Indians have descended from Ancient Israel

[Prince Dmuzid]

The Book of Mormon and LDS prophets have revealed that the American Indians have descended from Ancient Israel.  Are there any studies or research that could support this?

[Darren10]

37 minutes ago, Prince Dmuzid said:

The Book of Mormon and LDS prophets have revealed that the American Indians have descended from Ancient Israel.  Are there any studies or research that could support this?

It's very difficult to genetically connect American Indians to Middle Eastern / Near Easter / Eurasian. This is especially true for the Book of Mormon since no one knows what Lehi's DNA looks like. Same goes for the Muelikites, or Jaredites.

Until recently, the popular conclusion for Native Americans is that they have Asian DNA but a recent study shows, "a significant "Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian people linked to the Middle East and Europe, rather than entirely from East Asians as previously thought, according to a newly sequenced genome." The timeframe to fit within the Book of Mormon was way off but I think this study definitely opens up the acceptance of trans oceanic travel between the Old World and New World.

"Great Surprise"—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins

 

[hagoth7]

2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

It's very difficult to genetically connect American Indians to Middle Eastern / Near Easter / Eurasian. This is especially true for the Book of Mormon since no one knows what Lehi's DNA looks like. Same goes for the Muelikites, or Jaredites.

Until recently, the popular conclusion for Native Americans is that they have Asian DNA but a recent study shows, "a significant "Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian people linked to the Middle East and Europe, rather than entirely from East Asians as previously thought, according to a newly sequenced genome." The timeframe to fit within the Book of Mormon was way off but I think this study definitely opens up the acceptance of trans oceanic travel between the Old World and New World.

"Great Surprise"—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins

 

This also ties into the ancient Andean evidence of European origin.

 

Question being, how do laws/customs restricting testing of ancient First Nations DNA hinder answering this question?

And is that an intentional smokescreen?  

If so, is it man's doing, or God's?

Edited September 5, 2017 by hagoth7

[Johnnie Cake]

6 hours ago, Prince Dmuzid said:

The Book of Mormon and LDS prophets have revealed that the American Indians have descended from Ancient Israel.  Are there any studies or research that could support this?

Yes but none of them support this conclusion...Native Americans  migrated from Asia not Israel via the Bering Strait land bridge some 12,000 years ago...and not by boat in either 2200 BC or 600 BC.  There is no evidence to support an Israel Migration of any kind what so ever...nothing zilch, nadda outside of the pages of the Book of Mormon

Edited September 5, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[rodheadlee]

18 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Yes but none of them support this conclusion...Native Americans  migrated from Asia not Israel via the Bering Strait land bridge some 12,000 years ago...and not by boat in either 2200 BC or 600 BC.  There is no evidence to support an Israel Migration of any kind what so ever...nothing zilch, nadda outside of the pages of the Book of Mormon

There is no evidence to support a Headlee migration either, but it happened.

[Darren10]

42 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Yes but none of them support this conclusion...Native Americans  migrated from Asia not Israel via the Bering Strait land bridge some 12,000 years ago...and not by boat in either 2200 BC or 600 BC.  There is no evidence to support an Israel Migration of any kind what so ever...nothing zilch, nadda outside of the pages of the Book of Mormon

Did you read my post? 

[ALarson]

17 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Did you read my post? 

That study does not support the Book of Mormon.  That was DNA from a 24,000 year old human in Siberia, with Eurasian DNA markers.  It simply shows that some of his ancestors originated somewhere in Eurasia at some earlier point in time.  The time frame is off for it to apply to the people in the Book of Mormon.

[Calm]

This is a good summary of the current status:

https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng

[Darren10]

4 hours ago, ALarson said:

That study does not support the Book of Mormon.  That was DNA from a 24,000 year old human in Siberia, with Eurasian DNA markers.  It simply shows that some of his ancestors originated somewhere in Eurasia at some earlier point in time.  The time frame is off for it to apply to the people in the Book of Mormon.

 Agree that the "time frame [was] off", but I still see value of this study for the Book of Mormon. 

11 hours ago, Darren10 said:

It's very difficult to genetically connect American Indians to Middle Eastern / Near Easter / Eurasian. This is especially true for the Book of Mormon since no one knows what Lehi's DNA looks like. Same goes for the Muelikites, or Jaredites.

Until recently, the popular conclusion for Native Americans is that they have Asian DNA but a recent study shows, "a significant "Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian people linked to the Middle East and Europe, rather than entirely from East Asians as previously thought, according to a newly sequenced genome." The timeframe to fit within the Book of Mormon was way off but I think this study definitely opens up the acceptance of trans oceanic travel between the Old World and New World.

"Great Surprise"—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins

 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Darren10

[ALarson]

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

 Agree that the "time frame [was] off", but I still see value of this study for the Book of Mormon. 

I disagree.  It seems you've had a discussion on this article before on here too:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/64623-great-surprise—native-americans-have-west-eurasian-origins/?do=findComment&comment=1209443872

 

[Darren10]

Yup. Katherine and her greatness made some great points. 

[Darren10]

20 hours ago, Darren10 said:

It's very difficult to genetically connect American Indians to Middle Eastern / Near Easter / Eurasian. This is especially true for the Book of Mormon since no one knows what Lehi's DNA looks like. Same goes for the Muelikites, or Jaredites.

Until recently, the popular conclusion for Native Americans is that they have Asian DNA but a recent study shows, "a significant "Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian people linked to the Middle East and Europe, rather than entirely from East Asians as previously thought, according to a newly sequenced genome." The timeframe to fit within the Book of Mormon was way off but I think this study definitely opens up the acceptance of trans oceanic travel between the Old World and New World.

"Great Surprise"—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins

 

 

13 hours ago, ALarson said:

That study does not support the Book of Mormon.  That was DNA from a 24,000 year old human in Siberia, with Eurasian DNA markers.  It simply shows that some of his ancestors originated somewhere in Eurasia at some earlier point in time.  The time frame is off for it to apply to the people in the Book of Mormon.

 

7 hours ago, ALarson said:

I disagree.  It seems you've had a discussion on this article before on here too:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/64623-great-surprise—native-americans-have-west-eurasian-origins/?do=findComment&comment=1209443872

 

 

7 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Yup. Katherine and her greatness made some great points. 

ALarson;

How do you think a "significant minority" of Native Americans having Eurasian DNA originally arrived in the Americas? 

And I do find "a significant minority" framework as perfectly compatible with the Book of Mormon narrative as I view the Nephites and Jaredites as having been part of a much larger group of people who were, of course, not Nephite, nor Jaredite in their respective timeframes. Of course the people spoken about in this article were neither Nephites, nor Jaredite, but this article does very much open up the conception of Nephite and even Jaredite groups having existed in pre-Comumbian America. From anti Mormon remarks I personally have read, this study does throw a wrench in the narrative of there *never* having been Israelite people in the Americas before Columbus. 

I welcome your replies with any commentary but I would really like you to answer how do you think these specific pre-Columbian Native Americans originally arrived in the Americas. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Darren10

[Johnnie Cake]

7 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

There is no evidence to support a Headlee migration either, but it happened.

Don't know exactly what a headlee migration is but with respect to the bering strait migration there is overwhelming evidence that it did in fact take place...

[strappinglad]

Sure. Overwhelming evidence that some folks marched over the Bering Strait and kept pushing South for thousands of years driven by ( well we don't want to talk much about that ) , over hill and dale and desert and mountains and impenetrable jungles to eventually inhabit everywhere from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego.

2 swallows do not a summer make

a few artifacts do not a rational theory make. And Nobody, I mean  NOBODY , knew how to make a boat.

GIGO

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Don't know exactly what a headlee migration is but with respect to the bering strait migration there is overwhelming evidence that it did in fact take place...

No Doubt but what makes you think there would be evidence that 40 people migrated.

[Darren10]

15 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Don't know exactly what a headlee migration is but with respect to the bering strait migration there is overwhelming evidence that it did in fact take place...

Darren's Online Definitions declares the following: headlee immigration = 1) one that crossed many many waters (unless he flew) and many many interstates; 2) One who uses credit cards to the max in order to travel; 3) Someone who has migrated great distances yet still appears on online Mormon forums from time to time.

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Darren10

[Darren10]

4 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

No Doubt but what makes you think there would be evidence that 40 people migrated.

Oh come on. it had to have been at least 41 people.

Sheesh!!!

[Stargazer]

Having recently had my DNA analyzed through Ancestry.com, I can tell you that what your DNA says can sometimes be surprising.  I've got my genealogy fairly well nailed down, and my pedigree chart says there are no Slavs anywhere as far back as I can take it (to the 7th generation and earlier on certain lines). Yet my DNA says I'm 32% Eastern European. I'm at least 6% French, and 50% German, yet it says I'm less than 5% West European.  I'm 25% English (with some Welsh), yet my DNA says I'm 35% Great Britainish.

You're familiar perhaps with the set of identical triplets who sent in their samples to one of the DNA analysis services and got back non-identical results.

I don't know if I trust DNA analysis to the level that some of you seem to trust it.

But I know that I am 1/16th Native American, and the DNA results says I'm 5% Native. This is close enough, I think.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Stargazer