RevTestament Posted September 10, 2017 Author Posted September 10, 2017 9 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Is there a New Testament verse in the Bible that says they are not? Remember we are under a NEW COVENANT because of Christ. We are under covenant if one is baptized. A lot of "Christians" don't believe in that anymore. I chatted with a very friendly fellow over a period of months who just adamantly denied the need for baptism. Without baptism one has made no covenant with Christ - at least usually. That is how I look at it anyway. IMHO that person will not get resurrected in the next resurrection. Baptism is more than just a sign of the covenant too.
LittleNipper Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 6 hours ago, RevTestament said: We are under covenant if one is baptized. A lot of "Christians" don't believe in that anymore. I chatted with a very friendly fellow over a period of months who just adamantly denied the need for baptism. Without baptism one has made no covenant with Christ - at least usually. That is how I look at it anyway. IMHO that person will not get resurrected in the next resurrection. Baptism is more than just a sign of the covenant too. Christians are not saved by water dunking but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of GOD (that is THE baptism only the Holy Spirit can perform)... Non-believers do not possess HIM. The water immersion is a outward illustration of the inward sanctification that already took place for the world to witness.
RevTestament Posted September 10, 2017 Author Posted September 10, 2017 7 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Christians are not saved by water dunking but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of GOD (that is THE baptism only the Holy Spirit can perform)... Non-believers do not possess HIM. The water immersion is a outward illustration of the inward sanctification that already took place for the world to witness. Where does scripture say this? It is all made up. Listen to what you are saying. Where is the covenant on the part of the follower? There is none. You talk loosely about the indwelling of the Spirit, but the person has not made any commitment. Saying I believe in you, is not a commitment. Therefore, the person you are speaking of has made no promises to follow. No promise = no covenant. Covenants are two way promises. cov·e·nant ˈkəvənənt/ noun 1. an agreement. synonyms: contract, agreement, undertaking, commitment, guarantee, warrant, pledge, promise, bond, indenture;
LittleNipper Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 52 minutes ago, RevTestament said: Where does scripture say this? It is all made up. Listen to what you are saying. Where is the covenant on the part of the follower? There is none. You talk loosely about the indwelling of the Spirit, but the person has not made any commitment. Saying I believe in you, is not a commitment. Therefore, the person you are speaking of has made no promises to follow. No promise = no covenant. Covenants are two way promises. cov·e·nant ˈkəvənənt/ noun 1. an agreement. synonyms: contract, agreement, undertaking, commitment, guarantee, warrant, pledge, promise, bond, indenture; I would say that there is repentance and the acknowledgement that Jesus is GOD on the part of the saved individual! However, I will also submit that GOD made a covenant with Abraham that expected nothing in return.
RevTestament Posted September 10, 2017 Author Posted September 10, 2017 Just now, LittleNipper said: I would say that there is repentance and the acknowledgement that Jesus is GOD on the part of the saved individual! However, I will also submit that GOD made a covenant with Abraham that expected nothing in return. nope. It called Abraham to walk perfectly before Him. It also required every male in the house to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant. 1
bluebell Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I'm simply asking you to do what you are expecting of me. I don't expect you to believe something because the bible doesn't explicitly prohibit it or say it's not true. But that's what you want me to do? It doesn't make any sense. Edited September 11, 2017 by bluebell
Glenn101 Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 18 hours ago, RevTestament said: IMHO that person will not get resurrected in the next resurrection. Do you mean that he will not get resurrected in the first resurrection or that he will never get resurrected at all? Glenn
RevTestament Posted September 11, 2017 Author Posted September 11, 2017 57 minutes ago, Glenn101 said: Do you mean that he will not get resurrected in the first resurrection or that he will never get resurrected at all? Glenn Just what I said. The next resurrection. All get resurrected by the last one - even those who still have not accepted Yeshua. But that is over a thousand years away. 1
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/9/2017 at 1:11 PM, LittleNipper said: We certainly have Ministers/Pastors and deacons. These are ordained, appointed or elected. By whom?
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/8/2017 at 8:13 AM, LittleNipper said: All believers (saved individuals ) are a holy priesthood. 1. This is a doctrine fabricated by Martin Luther. It did not exist prior. 2. Saved from what?
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/8/2017 at 1:31 PM, bluebell said: Can I get a reference for where the bible says that? There isn't one. Some do try to wedge it in though.
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/9/2017 at 1:32 PM, LittleNipper said: All saved individuals are chosen by God. God will have all to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 (God our Savior) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. So, now what?
carbon dioxide Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 5 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I would say that there is repentance and the acknowledgement that Jesus is GOD on the part of the saved individual! However, I will also submit that GOD made a covenant with Abraham that expected nothing in return. A covenant is a two way contract or"an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified." If God expected nothing in return, that is not much a covenant. 1
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/9/2017 at 2:11 PM, LittleNipper said: Is there a New Testament verse in the Bible that says they are not? Remember we are under a NEW COVENANT because of Christ. Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. How was Aaron called? It wasn't just because he believed. 1
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 14 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Christians are not saved by water dunking but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of GOD (that is THE baptism only the Holy Spirit can perform)... Non-believers do not possess HIM. The water immersion is a outward illustration of the inward sanctification that already took place for the world to witness. According to Jesus, you have to be born of the water. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. But hey, what did Jesus know about it.
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I would say that there is repentance and the acknowledgement that Jesus is GOD on the part of the saved individual! However, I will also submit that GOD made a covenant with Abraham that expected nothing in return. Really? John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. There is that Jesus guy again, disagreeing with you. James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Humm, so Abraham paid a tithe. Why, if it wasn't "expected"? Edited September 11, 2017 by Vance
LittleNipper Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 42 minutes ago, bluebell said: I don't expect you to believe anything because the bible doesn't explicitly prohibit it. But that's what you want me to do? It doesn't make any sense. That's not what I want you to do. I want you to accept what the Bible says and not twist it or interpret it. Hebrews clearly say YOU are a Holy priesthood, and also that Jesus is the Chief or High Priest. Believers are the YOU. If you're not a believer then I guess that it doesn't pertain to you.
LittleNipper Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 39 minutes ago, Vance said: God will have all to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 (God our Savior) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. So, now what? 1 Timothy 2:4New American Standard Bible (NASB) 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [a]knowledge of the truth. The Savior wants all men to accept HIM; however, will they? I say no because of free will.
LittleNipper Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 34 minutes ago, Vance said: Really? John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. There is that Jesus guy again, disagreeing with you. James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Humm, so Abraham paid a tithe. Why, if it wasn't "expected"? You're speaking of different things. God made a convenient that Abraham would be the father of a Great nation.
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: 1 Timothy 2:4New American Standard Bible (NASB) 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [a]knowledge of the truth. The Savior wants all men to accept HIM; however, will they? I say no because of free will. So, are you saying God doesn't get what He desires? Why didn't He give ALL of us the free will to be saved? Edited September 11, 2017 by Vance
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: You're speaking of different things. God made a convenient that Abraham would be the father of a Great nation. Yet, He commanded him to sacrifice his son and expected and got his obedience. And you said He expected nothing.
LittleNipper Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, Vance said: So, are you saying God doesn't get what He desire? Why didn't He give ALL of us the free will to be saved? God did give us all free will. GOD simply foreknows exactly who will accept His plan of salvation from the beginning. GOD chose to follow through and that results in PREDESTINATION. Some will go to hell rejecting GOD and some to heaven as the result of GOD's creation.
bluebell Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 13 hours ago, LittleNipper said: That's not what I want you to do. I want you to accept what the Bible says and not twist it or interpret it. Hebrews clearly say YOU are a Holy priesthood, and also that Jesus is the Chief or High Priest. Believers are the YOU. If you're not a believer then I guess that it doesn't pertain to you. Show me where the bible says that believers do not get the priesthood through physical ordination.
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, LittleNipper said: That's not what I want you to do. I want you to accept what the Bible says and not twist it or interpret it. Well, let's see how this works out. Quote Hebrews clearly say YOU are a Holy priesthood, . . . No, that is NOT in Hebrews. "Holy priesthood" is only found once in the New Testament and it is found in Peter. Quote and also that Jesus is the Chief or High Priest. This part is true, but it doesn't say that Jesus is the only High Priest. Here is a clue, to have an "order" you need more than one. Quote Believers are the YOU. Well, we are believers, BUT neither we nor you are the audience for Peter's epistle. The audience was Male Leaders of the Ancient Church. That was the way of the world at the time. Quote If you're not a believer then I guess that it doesn't pertain to you. Ha Ha, you are funny. Edited September 11, 2017 by Vance
Vance Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 15 hours ago, LittleNipper said: God did give us all free will. GOD simply foreknows exactly who will accept His plan of salvation from the beginning. GOD chose to follow through and that results in PREDESTINATION. Some will go to hell rejecting GOD and some to heaven as the result of GOD's creation. Back pedaling much. Quote All saved individuals are chosen by God. So, with free will, tell me how this is going to happen? Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
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