Upon this rock I will build my Church...

[LittleNipper]

23 hours ago, RevTestament said:

This is why He is the chief cornerstone - you are only proving my point. I am with you that the revelation is the stone, but part of that revelation is the firm, steadfast testimony unto death. It is what makes El Eloah and some elohim children of the house.

Jesus is the Chief Corner Stone. Jesus is the Rock. Jesus is the Great I AM. Peter is a human and is now in heaven because of what the Son of GOD the Messiah did ---- and not because any works of his own. And yes, Peter is a Saint because that is what all save believers are, including me! So if you are with me, you also fully understand that The Church is Universal and in latin that is Catholic. However, I am not "Roman" Catholic. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by LittleNipper

[RevTestament]

58 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Jesus is the Chief Corner Stone. Jesus is the Rock. Jesus is the Great I AM. Peter is a human and is now in heaven because of what the Son of GOD the Messiah did ---- and not because any works of his own. And yes, Peter is a Saint because that is what all save believers are, including me! So if you are with me, you also fully understand that The Church is Universal and in latin that is Catholic. However, I am not "Roman" Catholic. 

I have been over this in another thread. I do believe the Church is wider than many believe - whoever believes in our Savior, Yeshua, repents and believes in the resurrection can qualify if they have the right intent.

However, I also believe there are earthly priesthood keys that are only given in authority. If it was as universal as you say, He wouldn't have had 12 apostles among the Jews, bishops and deacons - everyone would be an apostle. It is just not so.

[LittleNipper]

11 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I have been over this in another thread. I do believe the Church is wider than many believe - whoever believes in our Savior, Yeshua, repents and believes in the resurrection can qualify if they have the right intent.

However, I also believe there are earthly priesthood keys that are only given in authority. If it was as universal as you say, He wouldn't have had 12 apostles among the Jews, bishops and deacons - everyone would be an apostle. It is just not so.

All believers (saved individuals ) are a holy priesthood. Jesus is the Great High Priest. The keys we have are prayer, supplication and our witness.(and how shall they know without a preacher?). All believers are to spread the Good News to those they are given an opportunity. Jesus was beginning His ministry where He originated --- the Holy Land.

[RevTestament]

4 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

All believers (saved individuals ) are a holy priesthood. Jesus is the Great High Priest. The keys we have are prayer, supplication and our witness.(and how shall they know without a preacher?). All believers are to spread the Good News to those they are given an opportunity. Jesus was beginning His ministry where He originated --- the Holy Land.

Not scriptural. Yeshua was not the only high priest. This is Protestant myth that all believers are priesthood. Read Timothy. How come some are bishops and some deacons? Were there no apostles or were all apostles? The NT itself destroys this Protestant belief of convenience that there were no priesthood offices - it throws it out the window. You tend to believe the Nicene Creed which council was attended by Bishops and priests with assistant deacons. You believe the creed they came up with but disbelieve their authority. It makes no sense. The Protestant theology doesn't stand up to the NT text itself nor history. 

[bluebell]

On 9/4/2017 at 4:37 PM, RevTestament said:

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

The Romans had built a city at a large spring flowing out of a cave, and called it Cæsarea Philippi(above). Here they worshiped Pan, their god who guarded the gates of Hades. They called this cave the gates of Hades, so Yeshua is using this as part of an object lesson.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter[Petros], and upon this rock[Petra] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What is Yeshua saying here? Is He saying Peter is the Church? What is the big rock/Petra that Yeshua will build His church upon? I can almost see Him pointing to this huge rock the living water is flowing out of. In the scriptures stones represent revelation of God. If Petra is a big revelation, what is it? Peter just gave a revelation none of the other apostles did - that Yeshua is the Messiach/Christos/annointed, and is the Son of the living El. Thus, Peter is the stone because he is revealing that Yeshua is the Messiach of Daniel 9 prophesied to come. This is the revelation that Yeshua will build His Church upon - not some chain of authority.
 

What do you say? Is the testimony that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God the foundation of the Church? Does Yeshua form the chief cornerstone of this mighty rock of revelation? Is this the firm foundation upon which His Church is built? What does the Spirit tell you?

I always assumed it was the rock of revelation that Christ would build His church.

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

All believers (saved individuals ) are a holy priesthood. 

Can I get a reference for where the bible says that?

[Tacenda]

12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Can I get a reference for where the bible says that?

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/church-practice/priesthood/priesthood-7.php#.WbLjbBmGO00

ETA: Or this: https://www.openbible.info/topics/you_are_a_royal_priesthood

Edited September 8, 2017 by Tacenda

[LittleNipper]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can I get a reference for where the bible says that?

1 Peter 2:5-9 

5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

Please see the following: https://www.gotquestions.org/priesthood-believers.html

Edited September 8, 2017 by LittleNipper

[LittleNipper]

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Not scriptural. Yeshua was not the only high priest. This is Protestant myth that all believers are priesthood. Read Timothy. How come some are bishops and some deacons? Were there no apostles or were all apostles? The NT itself destroys this Protestant belief of convenience that there were no priesthood offices - it throws it out the window. You tend to believe the Nicene Creed which council was attended by Bishops and priests with assistant deacons. You believe the creed they came up with but disbelieve their authority. It makes no sense. The Protestant theology doesn't stand up to the NT text itself nor history. 

1 Peter 2:5-9 

5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 

6For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 

8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 

9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

[RevTestament]

45 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

1 Peter 2:5-9 

5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 

6For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 

8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 

9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Who is ye? Where does Peter say that is all the gentiles? Yeah, the early church members all received the priesthood. See Timothy. Some were bishops and some were deacons. 

Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Not every high priest is Yeshua.... I would say the truth hurts, but it should bring joy to know that you can have the same priesthood as Yeshua!

[RevTestament]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

I always assumed it was the rock of revelation that Christ would build His church.

But what is the revelation?

[bluebell]

20 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/church-practice/priesthood/priesthood-7.php#.WbLjbBmGO00

ETA: Or this: https://www.openbible.info/topics/you_are_a_royal_priesthood

Thanks Tacenda.  I was more looking for a scripture that explains how all believers receive the priesthood the moment they believe.  Those verses apply as much to LDS doctrine on the priesthood as they do to protestant doctrine on it, because they aren't very specific.

[bluebell]

14 hours ago, RevTestament said:

But what is the revelation?

I always assumed it was all things revealed by the Holy Ghost.  Per the verse that speaks about how the Holy Ghost revealed to Peter who Christ was and how He couldn't have known that without revelation.

[bluebell]

16 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

1 Peter 2:5-9 

5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

Please see the following: https://www.gotquestions.org/priesthood-believers.html

Those verses support the LDS doctrine on the priesthood as much as they support protestant doctrine.  Do you have a bible reference that teaches that priesthood of all believers that isn't so ambiguous?

[LittleNipper]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Those verses support the LDS doctrine on the priesthood as much as they support protestant doctrine.  Do you have a bible reference that teaches that priesthood of all believers that isn't so ambiguous?

Well, if Mormons believe every Born-again Christian is a member of the holy priesthood, we have no issue with that point. If Mormons only believe that there is a selected few that they themselves choose, then they are not following the letter of that passage. The passage is directed at Christian Jews and to believers in general. The fact is if you are a Christian, the passage is directed at you.

However, you may also wish to consider the following: http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-1-peter-2-5.htm

Edited September 9, 2017 by LittleNipper

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

Well, if Mormons believe every Born-again Christian is a member of the holy priesthood, we have no issue with that point. If Mormons only believe that there is a selected few that they themselves choose, then they are not following the letter of that passage. The passage is directed at Christian Jews and to believers in general. The fact is if you are a Christian, the passage is directed at you.

However, you may also wish to consider the following: http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-1-peter-2-5.htm

This is who Peter directed it to:

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

This would be like our president directing a message to our priesthood meeting, since almost all male members are priesthood members.  To assume that they had not been set apart as priesthood members is not supported when one also considers 1 Timothy 1 as well:

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

***

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

I guess it behooves some to throw out parts of Paul they don't like tho.

However, as for me 1 Peter and 1 Timothy as well as other passages about baptism and teaching for the dead convinced me that The Church of Jesus Christ is true. It follows scripture whereas others don't, because only it was restored to the truth. This was a revelation to me as a young man, so I joined, and received this priesthood as a deacon - I was a fairly sober child... 

Edited September 9, 2017 by RevTestament

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

Well, if Mormons believe every Born-again Christian is a member of the holy priesthood, we have no issue with that point. If Mormons only believe that there is a selected few that they themselves choose, then they are not following the letter of that passage. The passage is directed at Christian Jews and to believers in general. The fact is if you are a Christian, the passage is directed at you.

However, you may also wish to consider the following: http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-1-peter-2-5.htm

If someone was giving a sermon in an LDS congregation, they could quote these verses and apply them to the entire congregation even though not every person in the congregation was physically ordained to the priesthood.   Even though I'm not ordained to the priesthood, I still believe that these verses apply to me.  I'm still a part of a "royal priesthood, a holy nation."  

There is nothing in these verses that specifically teach that every believer gets the priesthood when they believe, without being physically ordained.  You are reading that into the verse (which is fine if that's how you guys get your doctrine).  But I was looking for a verse that taught that physical ordination was unnecessary.  These don't teach that.  They don't address how believers get the priesthood, they only address that believers are a part of it.

[LittleNipper]

25 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If someone was giving a sermon in an LDS congregation, they could quote these verses and apply them to the entire congregation even though not every person in the congregation was physically ordained to the priesthood.   Even though I'm not ordained to the priesthood, I still believe that these verses apply to me.  I'm still a part of a "royal priesthood, a holy nation."  

There is nothing in these verses that specifically teach that every believer gets the priesthood when they believe, without being physically ordained.  You are reading that into the verse (which is fine if that's how you guys get your doctrine).  But I was looking for a verse that taught that physical ordination was unnecessary.  These don't teach that.  They don't address how believers get the priesthood, they only address that believers are a part of it.

We certainly have Ministers/Pastors and deacons. These are ordained, appointed or elected. A priest in the Biblical sense is one GOD appoints. Melchizedek was not selected by humans.   

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

We certainly have Ministers/Pastors and deacons. These are ordained, appointed or elected. A priest in the Biblical sense is one GOD appoints. Melchizedek was not selected by humans.   

LDS also believe that all who hold an office in the priesthood are chosen by God.

 

[LittleNipper]

12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

LDS also believe that all who hold an office in the priesthood are chosen by God.

 

All saved individuals are chosen by God. 

[bluebell]

24 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

All saved individuals are chosen by God. 

Is there a verse in the bible that says that all saved individuals are chosen by God to have the priesthood?

Edited September 9, 2017 by bluebell

[LittleNipper]

13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is there a verse in the bible that says that all saved individuals are chosen by God to have the priesthood?

Is there a New Testament verse in the Bible that says they are not? Remember we are under a NEW COVENANT because of Christ. 

[bluebell]

50 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Is there a New Testament verse in the Bible that says they are not? Remember we are under a NEW COVENANT because of Christ. 

So, as long as the bible doesn't say something's not true, then we can believe it?

[Darren10]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

So, as long as the bible doesn't say something's not true, then we can believe it?

Come to think if it, the Bible doesn't say that Darren10 isn't the best in the world...at everything. 

/My self esteem just got a major boost.

[LittleNipper]

8 hours ago, bluebell said:

So, as long as the bible doesn't say something's not true, then we can believe it?

I'm simply asking you to do what you are expecting of me.