Robert F. Smith Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 6 hours ago, pogi said: I think we are talking past each other. I was actually responding to poptart's comment that even though he doesn't really believe in God etc., he finds religion useful as a way to keep morality in check. I found that odd because unless you believe, religion cannot effectively serve as an anchor for morality. It is the belief that acts as the binding force to the anchor. As you say, once that is jettisoned, there is nothing holding you to the morals. So, I was responding to poptarts turning to religion as a moral anchor more than anything else. While secularism itself is not a moral system, there are moral systems and philosophies found within secularism. I offered secularism as a better alternative for disbelievers because if you can't believe, religion is useless as a moral anchor because there is no reason to obey and live the code. While secularism is not the ideal choice, there are moral philosophies within secularism which can serve as a better anchor for those who are not bound by religious teachings and principles. In other words, if you can't believe in religion, it is better to let go and be the best damn secularist you can be - find your own subjective reasons to be a moral person, because it is the subjective reasons that bind us to morality. Disbelief is useless. I hope that makes sense. That does make sense, but a lot of secular ideologies are really religions -- as Bertrand Russell considered them to be -- masquerading as purely secular moral systems. For example, Russell considered Marxism-Leninism to be a religion.
poptart Posted June 21, 2017 Author Posted June 21, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 10:04 AM, JLHPROF said: You know, I recognize (probably better than most) that there may be medical reasons behind such thinking. But I can say that if that is your attitude about people and life then I don't think you will be able to understand faith and the atonement. I believe that a positive attitude is absolutely required to generate faith. You simply cannot learn to trust God if you think life is horrible all the time. And I should know, it has been my biggest struggle. I have a hard time with the trusting side of faith. Joseph Smith said " “Never be discouraged. . . . If I were sunk in the lowest pit of Nova Scotia, with the Rocky Mountains piled on me, I would hang on, exercise faith, and keep up good courage, and I would come out on top.” Bottom line, I like to see results/the finished product before I make a judgment call and from what i've seen religious people can be pretty rotten. A good friend's now ex wife suuure loves to post about Jesus yet has no qualms at all lying about him and getting her daughters (his step daughters) to lie in court and claim he touched them. I saw this a lot growing up and it's just getting worse. Lol never ask me to do that, I'd just let the rocky mountains slide off me and flee in a life boat. My life matters little to people, screw them.
RevTestament Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, poptart said: Bottom line, I like to see results/the finished product before I make a judgment call and from what i've seen religious people can be pretty rotten. A good friend's now ex wife suuure loves to post about Jesus yet has no qualms at all lying about him and getting her daughters (his step daughters) to lie in court and claim he touched them. I saw this a lot growing up and it's just getting worse. This kind of thing is a common result of the "once saved always saved" type of thinking. LDS don't interpret the same scriptures so narrowly. Most try to actually live the gospel rather than just throwing ourselves at Jesus' feet every Sunday.
poptart Posted June 21, 2017 Author Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, RevTestament said: This kind of thing is a common result of the "once saved always saved" type of thinking. LDS don't interpret the same scriptures so narrowly. Most try to actually live the gospel rather than just throwing ourselves at Jesus' feet every Sunday. You know, I've noticed that with just about every religion, if it's not the once saved always saved its' i'll just repent later.
Calm Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, poptart said: You know, I've noticed that with just about every religion, if it's not the once saved always saved its' i'll just repent later. That happens with LDS as well. I noticed growing up a few of my fellow youth would talk how if they wanted they could sin during the week and come Sunday they would get a fresh start taking the Sacrament. Hopefully most get that it doesn't work that way. Don't hear it from adults, but maybe they have just learned to hide their belief.
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