Christ's Passion and Death

[Bernard Gui]

On April 14, 2017 at 0:50 PM, 3DOP said:

God could have forgiven man by a means different, and less violent than the the suffering which His Son willingly endured. The Catholic Church teaches this, and it begs the question of whether it was fitting or not that Christ should have so suffered. I did not ponder what I believed about this subject before I was introduced to the Catholic doctrine. I think I was surprised at it because I had assumed previously that a loving Father would not punish His Son, one whit more than necessary to attain the price of our forgiveness and to satisfy the rigors of justice. It seems possible that this is an assumption made by other believers in the Atoning Passion and Death of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation or creation of the world. There was no surprise at the Fall of Adam or the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord. It was known fron the start. This plan was presented to us by the Father in our pre-mortal life with Him. We accepted it and shouted for joy. Book of Mormon prophets foretold the precise manner of his death on the cross and the nature and purpose of His sufferings.

President Harold Lee expressed it in this way:

Quote

The Son of God had the power to make worlds, to direct them. He came here as the Only Begotten Son to fulfill a mission, to be as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, to bring about salvation to all mankind. By giving His life He opened the door to resurrection and taught the way by which we could gain eternal life, which means to go back into the presence of the Father and the Son. That was who Jesus was in all His grandeur

 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I am opened to being persuaded.  I suspect my view has been coloured by the use of "passion" in business or at least business education.

Perhaps Welch dislikes the term in part for the reason this woman is saying "follow your passion" is self centered and won't work:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/caroline-beaton/what-no-one-told-me-about_2_b_11618730.html

I will have to discuss with my husband how he sees it (he uses it as a positive)

I don't believe the phrase "passion of Christ" was ever meant to convey any idea other than His suffering. The connotation of passion being a strong desire or urge is a relatively modern innovation that did not exist when the phrase was first applied to Christ.

See, for example, this treatment from a Catholic website:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-passion-of-jesus-christ.html

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The Passion of Christ, from the Latin patior meaning "suffer," refers to those sufferings our Lord endured for our redemption from the agony in the garden until His death on Calvary.

 

[Calm]

But there is nothing inherently passive in suffering.  People take on suffering all the time for a purpose.

[RevTestament]

On 4/14/2017 at 1:50 PM, 3DOP said:

God could have forgiven man by a means different, and less violent than the the suffering which His Son willingly endured. The Catholic Church teaches this, and it begs the question of whether it was fitting or not that Christ should have so suffered. I did not ponder what I believed about this subject before I was introduced to the Catholic doctrine. I think I was surprised at it because I had assumed previously that a loving Father would not punish His Son, one whit more than necessary to attain the price of our forgiveness and to satisfy the rigors of justice. It seems possible that this is an assumption made by other believers in the Atoning Passion and Death of our Lord Jesus Christ.

A clue is given to us in St. John's Gospel as to the possibility of other reasons good reasons than justice for why Christ intended to go way beyond and to the utmost extremes of agony and suffering for our behalf.  "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself. Now this he said signifying what death he should die." (John 12:32)

Only days before, Jesus Christ stood before three of His disciples on the holy mount transfigured, in the brightness of His Sacred Humanity, even His very garments that He wore glowed a brilliant white. Why did not Christ use such a method to convince the scribes and Pharisees, or those indifferent to religion, to follow Him? Because even had their sins been forgiven (by some other means than being lifted upon the Cross), their miseries would have remained. No doubt, anyone would have been awed to see the majesty of Jesus Christ as He was on Mt. Tabor. Certainly it would inspire a healthy fear, respect we might call it, among those who had otherwise been inclined to disregard the claims of God and His Son. But as correct as it is to be awestruck with respectful fear, the loving designs of God for the poor fallen sons of Adam could not be limited to awe and respect. God wished to accomplish more with the mission of His Son than satisfy the rigors of justice.

The burning furnace of charity which brought Jesus down from heaven would not be content with convincing souls of His true greatness and the absolute need to obey His Father in heaven. It would still be a misery to be a forgiven sinner, that does not know and love the One good God, who wants us to follow Him not because we are convinced in His power, but because we see that He did something unimaginable to prove His love and to kindle our own love. This love of God is the greatest of His revelations and it could not be made in a more fitting manner. I admit though, that It is not wide of the mark to say that from a certain perspective, that going through the Passion and Cross was crazy. "The preaching of the Cross is to them that perish foolishness", as St. Paul puts it.

Nobody but an all wise God and infinitely loving God could have conceived and carried out the plan that fooled Satan and all the world, by breaking the hearts of the hard of heart who come to understand why Jesus Christ offered Himself as a holocaust not merely to forgive sins, but to "draw all things to Himself". This has inspired Christians to remember Good Friday on every Friday, by making us desire to unite our sufferings with His sufferings. He could have won our allegiance by showing us His grandeur. But He wins the love and devotion of our hearts by showing us the depths of His burning love. What a lover! One imagines a Romeo or Juliet dying for the love of one who loved them. But Jesus Christ? He died for the love of those who didn't know Him yet. Even for us who were estranged, enemies.

St. Thomas speaks of the fittingness of Jesus' death on the Cross in his usual prosaic but precise ways, noting in particular that perfection does not consist in fearful obedience, but loving obedience to a God who loves us beyond our capacity to comprehend:

The Stabat Mater is a hymn in honor of the Mother of God and our Mother standing resignedly under the Cross of her Son. It is customarily sung with the Stations of the Cross as a means of uniting our love and sorrows with those of Jesus' Sorrowful Mother, whose soul, as prophesied by Simeon, was by a sword pierced. A few lines of the Latin poetry with some English translation might give the idea put by St. Thomas in a more inspiring manner.  see how fitting it was that Christ should have determined to "be lifted up".

Stabat Mater dolorosa, Juxta crucem lacrymosa, Dum pendebat Filius.

Near the cross, while on it hung her Son, the sorrowing Mother stood and wept.    (What strength! In her grief she courageously stands unswooning.)

Quis non posset contristari, Christi Matrem contemplari, Dolentem cum Filio?

Who is there could contemplate the Mother and the Son in sorrow, and not join his own with theirs?  (Yes. The hardest of heart cannot contemplate, placing himself at the scene while pondering, and remain unmoved.)  

Fac ut ardeat cor meum, In amando Christum Deum, Ut sibi complaceam.

Make this heart of mine burn with the love of Jesus my God, so that I may content his heart.  (Does an ostentatious show of signs and wonders accomplish this miracle of love in the soul of a sinner?)

Wikipedia has the full Latin text with a poeticised English. The entire hymn would never have been written if God had been content for us to merely believe in Him and to have been forgiven. By being "lifted up", he makes the soul that contemplates the Sacred Mysteries of our salvation to wonder in awe, yes. At the greatness of God, of course. But most of all at the kind goodness which condescends to love us after a manner that seems...if you will...almost mad.

Especially if there are others like I have been, assuming that justice could not be accomplished aside from this horrific suffering, I propose that of course the Cross allows our sins to be forgiven, but also by being lifted up, Jesus shows us very much more about Himself, and about ourselves. Some have asked why we Catholics call it Good Friday. Because It is the most generous display of unselfish goodness that the world has ever known. May we love our good God a little more this year as we consider His burning heart of charity for us on Good Friday.

3DOP

Not to detract from your beautiful exposition, 3 DOP, of our Lord's willing atonement, but I have serious doubts that He was crucified on Friday. That is not 3 days and 3 nights. It was probably Wed or Thurs evening. I believe it quite probable that He was crucified on a Wed on the eve of a Thurs Passover sabbath.

On 4/14/2017 at 1:59 PM, JLHPROF said:

I was thinking over lunch that we should have a thread devoted to this Good Friday day, when we remember the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior.

We on this board have a variety of beliefs and approaches to religion, but almost everyone here acknowledges Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Let's give thanks for Him this day and on Easter morn as well!
 

So, I conclude no reason to celebrate Good Friday.