TheSkepticChristian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, The Nehor said: That book is a compilation of articles originally published elsewhere. If you would rather hunt down the original articles from the 50s 60s and 70s go nuts In other words you don't know, you are simply guessing. Are you completely sure that Nibley's articles on Old Testament topics and theology were published in academic journals? Prove it! 10 hours ago, The Nehor said: just keep shining on you crazy ignorant diamond. but you are the one making claims without presenting any evidence. Please cite academic Papers on Old Testament studies, especially Noah's flood. Edited August 1, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
TheSkepticChristian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) On 7/30/2016 at 9:41 AM, Calm said: Here is alist of his nonLDS published works As a former fan of Nibley I don't doubt he was a Near East scholar, but I am not sure he was a Hebrew expert on Old Testament studies and theology. Your list has nothing about the Old Testament in academic books or journals. On 7/30/2016 at 9:41 AM, Calm said: "The Book of Enoch as a Theodicy." 28p. typed manuscript of a paper read at the regional meeting of the Society for Biblical Literature in Denver, Colorado, in 1974 Was that Paper ever published in a respected academic journal? would be nicer one about Genesis. Edited August 1, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
TheSkepticChristian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) On 7/30/2016 at 9:36 AM, thesometimesaint said: More ad Hominem. A real academic Hebrew dictionary on the Old Testament says about Genesis 1:5, "day of twenty-four hours" (Koehler and Baumgartner 1995, p. 399). It is published by Brill, a highly respected international academic publisher. Brown-Driver-Briggs concludes the same thing! Koehler, L., W. Baumgartner, and J. J. Stamm. 1994. The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament. Vol. 1. Ed. and trans. M. E. J. Richardson. New York, New York: E. J. Brill. Brown, Francis, et al. The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon: With an Appendix Containing the Biblical Aramaic: Coded with the Numbering System from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. Hendrickson Pub, 1996. So according to the Hebrew scholars the first day in Genesis was a day of 24 hours. Edited August 1, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
The Nehor Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 4 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: In other words you don't know, you are simply guessing. Are you completely sure that Nibley's articles on Old Testament topics and theology were published in academic journals? Prove it! No, if it were someone minimally competent or sincerely questioning I might take the time to go through them but you aren't worth it. 4 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but you are the one making claims without presenting any evidence. Please cite academic Papers on Old Testament studies, especially Noah's flood. No, you are the one making demands for information and then demanding that every whim of yours be satisfied by others presenting you evidence. Then when it is presented you try to challenge it. A competent rational person would examine the persons and things presented and look for flaws. You are not a competent rational person. Instead whenever anyone presents anything to meet your inane demands you demand that they do the research of finding the flaws for you or you just assume they exist because you are too lazy and/or stupid to do the research yourself. To sum up:
TheSkepticChristian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Instead whenever anyone presents anything to meet your inane demands you demand that they do the research of finding the flaws for you what? LOL I am just asking for academic papers about Old Testament studies in respected Journals, or books by respected publishers. 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: No, if it were someone minimally competent or sincerely questioning I might take the time to go through them but you aren't worth it. Why didn't you tell me that from the beginning? 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You are not a competent rational person. I don't appreciate your insults and judgment. 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: you just assume they exist because you are too lazy and/or stupid to do the research yourself No dude, it is not hard to cite academic books or papers. You are the one saying making claims, you need to prove them! CFR Bytheway, 26 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: A real academic Hebrew dictionary on the Old Testament says about Genesis 1:5, "day of twenty-four hours" (Koehler and Baumgartner 1995, p. 399). It is published by Brill, a highly respected international academic publisher. Brown-Driver-Briggs concludes the same thing! Koehler, L., W. Baumgartner, and J. J. Stamm. 1994. The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament. Vol. 1. Ed. and trans. M. E. J. Richardson. New York, New York: E. J. Brill. Brown, Francis, et al. The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon: With an Appendix Containing the Biblical Aramaic: Coded with the Numbering System from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. Hendrickson Pub, 1996. So according to the Hebrew scholars the first day in Genesis was a day of 24 hours. Edited August 1, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
The Nehor Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: what? LOL I am just asking for academic papers about Old Testament studies in respected Journals, or books by respected publishers. Why didn't you tell me that from the beginning? I don't appreciate your insults and judgment. No dude, it is not hard to cite academic books or papers. You are the one saying making claims, you need to prove them! CFR Bytheway, Edited August 1, 2016 by The Nehor
bcuzbcuz Posted August 1, 2016 Author Posted August 1, 2016 12 hours ago, danielwoods said: Dave Adkisson, the president and CEO of the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce, recently visited the Ark and had this to say: "I took my three grandkids to the ark on Saturday, and we had a wonderful visit. They loved the displays and the petting zoo. I focused on the parking lot being full (!) and the amazing construction. What a feat! You had quite a crowd on Saturday, but it was handled very efficiently. Best wishes for continued success!" Sucker born every minute.
bcuzbcuz Posted August 1, 2016 Author Posted August 1, 2016 On 8/1/2016 at 1:54 AM, The Nehor said: Post removed 1
thesometimesaint Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 6 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: A real academic Hebrew dictionary on the Old Testament says about Genesis 1:5, "day of twenty-four hours" (Koehler and Baumgartner 1995, p. 399). It is published by Brill, a highly respected international academic publisher. Brown-Driver-Briggs concludes the same thing! Koehler, L., W. Baumgartner, and J. J. Stamm. 1994. The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament. Vol. 1. Ed. and trans. M. E. J. Richardson. New York, New York: E. J. Brill. Brown, Francis, et al. The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon: With an Appendix Containing the Biblical Aramaic: Coded with the Numbering System from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. Hendrickson Pub, 1996. So according to the Hebrew scholars the first day in Genesis was a day of 24 hours. More Ad Hominem. Please address the issues and not the people presenting them.
TheSkepticChristian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 7 hours ago, The Nehor said: For the love of Brahma! I am not arguing with you! I am simply asking you for academic papers on Old Testament studies! 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: More Ad Hominem. Please address the issues and not the people presenting them. I cited an academic book.
thesometimesaint Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 Please address the actual issues, and not the person making them. IE; That in the age of the Creation the day was 24 hrs long.
The Nehor Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: Have you two, Nehor and TheSkepticChristian, finished shitting on each other? Just asking. Nah, I am not bored yet. My attention span will probably not last out this week though if that helps. Edited August 1, 2016 by The Nehor
bcuzbcuz Posted August 1, 2016 Author Posted August 1, 2016 17 hours ago, whirlingmerc said: The flood was to cover 'all the high mountains under all the heavens' I do like that when one man, Noah, offered sacrifice after the flood God's wrath was satisfied and He promised never again to destroy the earth with a flood, putting his bow in the clouds. I like how Jonathan Edwards described it, the bow was no longer facing the earth but aimed at the man in heaven, Jesus Christ who would take the wrath of God on the cross for believers. Are you seriously stating that rainbows did not exist prior to the end of Noah's flood? That in a world of 6000 years, that for the first 1500 years, light wasn't refreacted at 42 degrees?
TheSkepticChristian Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Please address the actual issues, and not the person making them. IE; That in the age of the Creation the day was 24 hrs long. I cited two academic books! You need to prove "day" in Genesis chapter 1 means "a period of time" Edited August 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
thesometimesaint Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 11 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I cited two academic books! You need to prove "day" in Genesis chapter 1 means "a period of time" Asked and answered. There is no evidence that a "day" in Genesis means a literal 24 hr period. We can all believe anything we want, but reality does have a tendency to come back and bite us on the butt when we do.
mnn727 Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 11 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I cited two academic books! So what? What other strange unrealistic things do your academics believe?
TheSkepticChristian Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, mnn727 said: So what? What other strange unrealistic things do your academics believe? non-academics don't do much better. 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: Asked and answered. There is no evidence that a "day" in Genesis means a literal 24 hr period. We can all believe anything we want I cited two academic books, you cited zero. 24 hours or less, Gen 1:5 says, "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.".Gen 1:6 "And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day." The burden of proof falls on you, you need to prove that day means "a period of time" in Genesis chapter 1. So yes, day is probably even less than 24 hours, day-light hours "“Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day," Quote We can all believe anything we want "Third, theism is not well defined...That’s where apparently an infinite amount of flexibility comes" - Sean Carroll Edited August 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
thesometimesaint Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 37 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: non-academics don't do much better. I cited two academic books, you cited zero. 24 hours or less, Gen 1:5 says, "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.".Gen 1:6 "And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day." The burden of proof falls on you, you need to prove that day means "a period of time" in Genesis chapter 1. So yes, day is probably even less than 24 hours, day-light hours "“Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day," SEE
bcuzbcuz Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: Asked and answered. There is no evidence that a "day" in Genesis means a literal 24 hr period. We can all believe anything we want, but reality does have a tendency to come back and bite us on the butt when we do. We don't know how long the day was, we don't know how they counted years. The record in the Bible has people living almost a thousand years. But there isn't a single piece of evidence that people actually lived that long. So how long was a day? How long was a year? longevity Name Age LXX Methuselah 969 969 Jared 962 962 Noah 950 950 Eve 940? 940? Adam 930 930 Seth 912 912 Kenan 910 910 Enos 905 905 Mahalalel 895 895 Lamech 777 753 Shem 600 600 Eber 464 404 Cainan — 460 Arpachshad 438 465 Salah 433 466 Enoch 365 365 Peleg 239 339 Reu 239 339 Serug 230 330 Job 210? 210? Terah 205 205 Isaac 180 180 Abraham 175 175 Nahor 148 304 Jacob 147 147 Esau 147? 147? Ishmael 137 137 Levi 137 137 Amram 137 137 Kohath 133 133 Laban 130+ 130+ Deborah 130+ 130+ Jehoiada 130 130 Sarah 127 127 Miriam 125+ 125+ Aaron 123 123 Rebecca 120+ 120+ Moses 120 120 Joseph 110 110 Joshua
thesometimesaint Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Which goes to the point it wasn't a literal 24 hr period. But even assuming it was, the length of years is obviously an exaggeration. 1
danielwoods Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 The Hebrew word used for day "yom" always means 24 hours especially in the context outlined in Genesis. As as for no evidence that these people lived this long (900 years as an example). What evidence were you expecting, a video? By the way, ones confidence in the proclamations about things in the past are based solely on faith.
Raingirl Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 55 minutes ago, danielwoods said: The Hebrew word used for day "yom" always means 24 hours especially in the context outlined in Genesis. As as for no evidence that these people lived this long (900 years as an example). What evidence were you expecting, a video? By the way, ones confidence in the proclamations about things in the past are based solely on faith. Actually, your first sentence is not true at all. But if you are using Google-found Christian sites who twist words to fit their agenda, instead of actually understanding Hebrew, or turning to legit sources that are not determined to wrest the scriptures to their personal wants, then that is probably what you read. Hint: just because you read it on the Internet, doesn't make it true. Shocking, right? 3
danielwoods Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Raingirl said: Actually, your first sentence is not true at all. But if you are using Google-found Christian sites who twist words to fit their agenda, instead of actually understanding Hebrew, or turning to legit sources that are not determined to wrest the scriptures to their personal wants, then that is probably what you read. Hint: just because you read it on the Internet, doesn't make it true. Shocking, right? If you want to actually add to the conversation then post your evidence of where "yom" is used to mean "period of time" when surrounded by "Evening and morning" modifiers. Edited August 2, 2016 by danielwoods
bcuzbcuz Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, danielwoods said: If you want to actually add to the conversation then post your evidence of where "yom" is used to mean "period of time" when surrounded by "Evening and morning" modifiers. If you get one day to equal one day, you still don't get 900 years to equal 900 years. Somebody's lying.
danielwoods Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said: If you get one day to equal one day, you still don't get 900 years to equal 900 years. Somebody's lying. A year to the Hebrew was likely closer to 360 days. However, that doesn't help or change the issue that your faith has with the text itself plainly states. IF you don't believe it, that's not really an issue that I can help with. As I asked previously, what evidence would you expect? What evidence would convince you? Why for example, if you actually believe in God who is the creator of all things, would you have trouble believing that he originally made us to live longer? And now after thousands of years of degradation (devo) we don't live that long anymore. Why is that difficult to believe, if you already accept that there is a Creator?
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