Ken Ham's Ark

[TheSkepticChristian]

 

33 minutes ago, Calm said:

"Why don't you learn from Cal? She did present some good data, not you."

If you believe my data is good, then why are you claiming still most Americans are not interested in science?

9 out of 10 is a rather substantial majority, is it not?

9 out of 10 is a substantial majority, but in my opinion someone that is interested in science knows (or is willing to learn) basic Science. 

your own ABC news article says "But only 11 percent could define radiation, and only 13 percent could describe a molecule, and those figures have remained fairly consistent in recent years...Only 21 percent of those surveyed were able to explain what it means to study something scientifically, just over half understood probability, and only a third knew how an experiment is conducted,”  That is basic High school Science! 

or how about "Some 37% of Americans enjoy keeping up with science news" 

http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/12/11/public-interest-in-science-health-and-other-topics/

or how about "Those who are more interested are also more knowledgeable about science topics"

"Pew Research Center’s survey of U.S.-based members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) found broad concerns about the public’s knowledge of science, and some 57% considered a lack of public interest in science news to be a major reason behind the public’s limited knowledge about science. Indeed, the new Pew Research Center analysis finds a strong association between public knowledge of science topics and reported interest levels. The American Trends Panel survey found that respondents reporting a particular interest in science and technology topics were also more likely to answer questions on a science knowledge quiz asked several months later correctly (mean 9.7 out of 12 correct questions, compared with 7.2 among those not interested in these topics)."

That is why I keep asking three questions. Do most Americans 

1.  read science books or magazines?

2.  now basic high school Science?

3. Contribute to Scientific Research? 

IF the answer is no, where is the interest? 

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[Kemara]

21 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

 

I did prove that most Americans are not interested in Science, it's not my fault you don't want to see that! 

You keep saying that but you dont offer any evidence for it. No justification, no defence, no explanation, no reasoning, no logic, no nothing. This is also true of all your other points.

Your claims have have been invalidated by actual data. Unlike the data you keep repeating, there is no need for speculative inference from the data presented by myself and especially from Calm. This data, is clear, it is comprehensive and it disproves your position. If you disagree with the data please demonstrate why, justify your reasons for disagreeing, defend your position, address the challenges and atlernatives to your position, explain your position using logic and reasoning, stay on topic, stay in context and do all this while being intellectually dishonest. Anything less than addressing this issue in this manner will be treated as an admission on your part that that you are wrong and that you condede.     

[thesometimesaint]

SC:

Do most Americans 1. know basic science? 2. read science books or magazines? 3. donate to scientific research? 

If no, that is a lack of interest in Science, you disagree?

You'll have to be a lot more specific than that.

1. Yes, most know basic science to a basic level.

2. I dare say nearly every American in school or has gone to school is reading, or has read at least one science book.

3. Most Americans donate to scientific research, when they by or use any product of science.

[Sleeper Cell]

8 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

9 out of 10 is a substantial majority, but in my opinion someone that is interested in science knows (or is willing to learn) basic Science.

So now it is just your opinion (that most American‘s are not interested in basic science) rather than  an “established fact?”  A pity you didn’t say that in the first place.  

If we are just talking opinions, it is my opinion that “knowing basic science” is not merely a matter of memorizing information.  You also have to know how to use the information.  

I could quote Newton’s three laws when I was in second grade.  I didn’t really know how to use them until much later. I also knew the mass, diameter, and the basic orbital data of every planet in our solar system.  Even then, I suspected that I had a long way to go before I could say that I knew basic science.  

Incidentally, in my opinion, another essential element of “knowing basic science” is being willing to admit you are wrong when you are wrong. 

BTW,  you still have not answered my CFR.  

[TheSkepticChristian]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

1. Yes, most know basic science to a basic level.

How about basic high school? That is not what the data shows. 

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

2. I dare say nearly every American in school or has gone to school is reading, or has read at least one science book.

You  said "has" I am talking about most Americans in the present, not when they were in high school. 

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Most Americans donate to scientific research, when they by or use any product of science.

that is not a donation 

 

[TheSkepticChristian]

8 hours ago, Kemara said:

You keep saying that but you dont offer any evidence for it. No justification, no defence, no explanation, no reasoning, no logic, no nothing. This is also true of all your other points.

Your claims have have been invalidated by actual data. Unlike the data you keep repeating, there is no need for speculative inference from the data presented by myself and especially from Calm. This data, is clear, it is comprehensive and it disproves your position. If you disagree with the data please demonstrate why, justify your reasons for disagreeing, defend your position, address the challenges and atlernatives to your position, explain your position using logic and reasoning, stay on topic, stay in context and do all this while being intellectually dishonest. Anything less than addressing this issue in this manner will be treated as an admission on your part that that you are wrong and that you condede.     

Are most Americans interested in learning or doing Science? Noooooo

What most Americans are interested in is the products, gifts, blessings of Science, not how science works! You didn't present any evidence that most Americans are interested in how science works! Also, most Americans are interested in political issues, but not how science works. 

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID AMERICANS ARE NOT VERY INTERSTED IN SCIENCE!

How can you be interested in someone or something without knowing it? You refuted nothing! 

1 hour ago, Sleeper Cell said:

So now it is just your opinion (that most American‘s are not interested in basic science) rather than  an “established fact?”  A pity you didn’t say that in the first place.  

I already told you why, no need to ignore my reason.

Edited August 28, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[Calm]

In my links, the majority of Americans want their taxes to go to science research, learn their science off the internet pretty much how like everyone else learns these days, rate higher than other countries in their interest with studies showing that a majority are very interested (over half rate science and medicine as in their top interests) as well as  showing no difference in interest or knowledge based on religious beliefs or lack there of outside a few topics dealing with creation.

One of the problems found in my links that does exist is a high number do not understand the scientific method and there appears to be a number who don't differentiate between science and pseudoscience.  I think we have seen in this thread an excellent example of how these lacks can affect reasoning efforts where it is seen as sufficient to offer up first a hypothesis that is framed in a very vague global statement and then alter it to ensure that the conclusion is still be "my hypothesis is true" and speculation of what the data implies is seen as preferable to using actual data (apparently because the actual data does not support the claim).

PS:  one of the positive findings, iirc, in my opinion is the majority see themselves as knowing less science then they actually do.  I speculate this may contribute to a healthy skepticism about their own opinions as well as efforts to learn more, something everyone can benefit from as I believe we can see here, but I would need to find research on that to see if this is true or if bias tends to be so strong that certainty in one's opinions and 'speculations as facts' remain even in areas of less familiarity.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Calm

[Kemara]

19 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Are most Americans interested in learning or doing Science? Noooooo

What most Americans are interested in is the products, gifts, blessings of Science, not how science works! You didn't present any evidence that most Americans are interested in how science works! Also, most Americans are interested in political issues, but not how science works. 

How can you be interested in someone or something without knowing it? You refuted nothing! 

I already told you why, no need to ignore my reason.

I welcome your frank admission that you cannot justify your position and that your claims have been invalidated by actual data. Your admission was really your only choice but welcome nontheless. 

[Sleeper Cell]

4 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I already told you why, no need to ignore my reason.

I did not CFR your opinion.  My CFR referred to your assertion that:

““if anyone is closely reading … [your] conversation [with Kemara] … he or she will know I won the debate.”  

Not only have you still failed to provide any evidence that everybody who closely read that conversation knows that you won the debate,  you have failed to prevent any evidence that I know you won the debate -- nor evidence about whether or not I have closely read it.   

Can you rule out the possibility that others may have closely read that conversation, yet chose not to comment in this thread at all?  How can you possibly know what anonymous readers know (or how closely they have read) without any information about them (or from them), whatsoever? 

If you cannot support your assertion, why not simply retract it?  Or, at least, modify it (e.g., by adding the phrase “in my opinion)?”  Wouldn’t that sorta be in the spirit of “Science?”  

Failing that, please consider this my 5th CFR on your assertion: “if anyone is closely reading … he or she will know I won the debate.”

Edited August 28, 2016 by Sleeper Cell

[bcuzbcuz]

Winning a debate on the internet? Get a life.

The ********* here is beginning to stink.

 

No profanity.  

[Sleeper Cell]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Winning a debate on the internet? Get a life.

The ********* here is beginning to stink.

This appears to be directed at me, even though SC is the one who has made such a big deal of proclaiming that he is allegedly  “winning the debate.”  Please clarify.  I am simply trying to get an answer to a simple CFR.

BTW, I believe that I have spent less time posting in this thread than you have, and much, much less time than SC has -- even though he is on “limited status.”  

[Calm]

Bcuz, there is a long history of SC making claims he doesn't support sufficiently, imo.  A number of us have tried various approaches to shift his approach to more fruitful versions.  My own comments are one attempt.  Perhaps the others engaging him  are doing the same, perhaps not.

[Hestia]

Bcuzbcuz has been banned from the thread.  Everyone move on.

[Kemara]

20 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

...but in my opinion someone that is interested in science knows (or is willing to learn) basic Science. 

 "my opinion" 

[thesometimesaint]

21 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

How about basic high school? That is not what the data shows. 

You  said "has" I am talking about most Americans in the present, not when they were in high school. 

that is not a donation 

 

I didn't claim at a high school level. Think even more basic.

US citizens in high school aren't Americans?

A certain amount of science goes into making everything you buy. IE; Cooking is an art, while baking is chemistry.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by thesometimesaint