Ken Ham's Ark

[thesometimesaint]

31 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Thank You!  for telling the truth. 

Remember what I said? "Non-Theists are not a significant variable in the American Population. We can say the American population is a Theistic population" Only 4% of the American population is Atheist. 

So we can say that most American Theists don't know much about science or religion. 

I am a Mormon. 

You're welcome.

True, but misleading

SEE The 2015 Pew Religious Landscape survey reported that as of 2014 , 22.8% of the American population is religiously unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the US population.

That is an overstatement, and oversimplification. It is better to leave it at Most Americans period don't know much about science or religion.

I've never doubted your religious convictions.

[TheSkepticChristian]

5 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

You're welcome.

True, but misleading

SEE The 2015 Pew Religious Landscape survey reported that as of 2014 , 22.8% of the American population is religiously unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the US population.

but 90% believes in God (Theist) 

A significant number of religious people say they are religiously unaffiliated 

 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I am a Mormon. 

And??? Is that a denial? An excuse? What?

[thesometimesaint]

19 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

but 90% believes in God (Theist) 

A significant number of religious people say they are religiously unaffiliated 

 

Christianity is a religion within Theism. There are perhaps some 50,000 sects of Christianity within the broad definition of Christianity. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is but one relatively small sect within it.

[bcuzbcuz]

OK, SAME TOPIC, NEW QUESTION!!!!

What did Noah do regarding water? And by this I mean Drinking Water.

For the first 40 days and nights, drinking water would not have been a problem for Noah. Duh...

And given that the rains (and underground sources) flooded the whole earth, to even cover the mountians, Noah and his family could scoop the surface water. Since fresh water is lighter than salt water it woud float on top. That covers the first 190 (150 + 40) days. But then the waters receded. By day 197, Noah's ship finally came to rest on Mt. Ararat. The waters continued to recede until day 273 when the tops of the mountains became visible. Then 40 days later, Noah opened the window. He sent out a raven, then he sent out a dove and then he waited another week.

My question is simply: What did Noah do for water from the time his boat rested on Mt. Ararat, to the time the dove came back with an olive leaf?

Maybe he had been smart and saved water for his family and himself, but what about the animals? The animals are equally incapable of surviving on salt water as humans are.

But how did Noah reach for freah water while he is stuck on Mt. Ararat until he can open the door of his boat? He would need an awfully long rope tied to his bucket to get water for himself and all the animals.

So the real problem with the story of Noah is the most obvious of all. It all comes down to a question of WATER.

"Water,water, everywhere. But not a drop to drink."

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

OK, SAME TOPIC, NEW QUESTION!!!!

What did Noah do regarding water? And by this I mean Drinking Water.

For the first 40 days and nights, drinking water would not have been a problem for Noah. Duh...

And given that the rains (and underground sources) flooded the whole earth, to even cover the mountians, Noah and his family could scoop the surface water. Since fresh water is lighter than salt water it woud float on top. That covers the first 190 (150 + 40) days. But then the waters receded. By day 197, Noah's ship finally came to rest on Mt. Ararat. The waters continued to recede until day 273 when the tops of the mountains became visible. Then 40 days later, Noah opened the window. He sent out a raven, then he sent out a dove and then he waited another week.

My question is simply: What did Noah do for water from the time his boat rested on Mt. Ararat, to the time the dove came back with an olive leaf?

Maybe he had been smart and saved water for his family and himself, but what about the animals? The animals are equally incapable of surviving on salt water as humans are.

But how did Noah reach for freah water while he is stuck on Mt. Ararat until he can open the door of his boat? He would need an awfully long rope tied to his bucket to get water for himself and all the animals.

So the real problem with the story of Noah is the most obvious of all. It all comes down to a question of WATER.

"Water,water, everywhere. But not a drop to drink."

The surface water would not have been drinkable. Fresh water is lighter but salinity would distribute itself quickly. The top water would quickly become salt water.

The highest recorded rainfall in a 24 hour period was about 72 inches and that came from a tropical cyclone. So six feet a day. Salt would have plenty of time to distribute itself. Add in that rainfall of that density means there is a storm and the ocean is churning like crazy and the water is undrinkable. Salinity would fall but it would still kill you.

[bcuzbcuz]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The surface water would not have been drinkable. Fresh water is lighter but salinity would distribute itself quickly. The top water would quickly become salt water.

The highest recorded rainfall in a 24 hour period was about 72 inches and that came from a tropical cyclone. So six feet a day. Salt would have plenty of time to distribute itself. Add in that rainfall of that density means there is a storm and the ocean is churning like crazy and the water is undrinkable. Salinity would fall but it would still kill you.

The water from 40 days and nights of rain + gushing water from the "below" would need to rise a lot more than 6 feet a day.

Mt. Ararat rises 5,165 meters or 16,945 feet high, above the plains that are at 2,000-3,000 feet high, at its base. That's 16,945-3000= 13,945 + 15 cubits (around 20 feet) divided by 40 = 349. That means the water would need to rise almost 350 feet per 24 hour period.

If the waters covered Mt. Everest, the water would need to rise 29,029 divided by 40 =  725. The water would need to rise 725 feet per day. That's 7 olympic swimming pools per day. Wow, that's a lot of water. Sitting in the ark would have felt like going up in a fast elevator 40 days in a row.

[thesometimesaint]

That much water in the air would have increased the atmospheric pressure/temperature to the point of parboiling Noah and his fearless crew.

[The Nehor]

On August 18, 2016 at 6:13 PM, bcuzbcuz said:

The water from 40 days and nights of rain + gushing water from the "below" would need to rise a lot more than 6 feet a day.

Mt. Ararat rises 5,165 meters or 16,945 feet high, above the plains that are at 2,000-3,000 feet high, at its base. That's 16,945-3000= 13,945 + 15 cubits (around 20 feet) divided by 40 = 349. That means the water would need to rise almost 350 feet per 24 hour period.

If the waters covered Mt. Everest, the water would need to rise 29,029 divided by 40 =  725. The water would need to rise 725 feet per day. That's 7 olympic swimming pools per day. Wow, that's a lot of water. Sitting in the ark would have felt like going up in a fast elevator 40 days in a row.

What water below. If we are going with water suddenly flowing up in great quantities out of the earth then you are already saying it was miraculous. Water does not do that naturally.

[thesometimesaint]

If we have to rely on miracles to explain how science works it is no longer science, but it is religion.

[bcuzbcuz]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

What water below. If we are going with water suddenly flowing up in great quantities out of the earth then you are already saying it was miraculous. Water does not do that naturally.

I agree with you. But Genesis 8:2 says that the rains stopped, as well as "the springs of the deep" had been closed. 

Then, after the flood, the whole concept of the flood draining away, like someone pulling the plug in a bathtub, is "miraculous". It would mean that billions and billions of gallons of water would be somewhere under the surface of the earth. 

The whole idea that aquifers all over the earth are drying up is therefore; just another conspiracy. 

[Calm]

This is not a subject I pay constant attention to (lots of repetition after all, no matter how clever you are  ) so if this has been posted before or is a frequent reference, my apologies.  I thought better to err on the side of caution (both in posting it and deciding not to reread the thread to see if it was mentioned).

For the skeptic....

http://m.phys.org/news/2015-12-worldwide-survey-religion-science-scientists.html

 

Quote

 

While it is commonly assumed that most scientists are atheists, the global perspective resulting from the study shows that this is simply not the case.

"More than half of scientists in India, Italy, Taiwan and Turkey self-identify as religious," Ecklund said. "And it's striking that approximately twice as many 'convinced atheists' exist in the general population of Hong Kong, for example, (55 percent) compared with the scientific community in this region (26 percent)."

The researchers did find that scientists are generally less religious than a given general population. However, there were exceptions to this: 39 percent of scientists in Hong Kong identify as religious compared with 20 percent of the general population of Hong Kong, and 54 percent of scientists in Taiwan identify as religious compared with 44 percent of the general population of Taiwan. Ecklund noted that such patterns challenge longstanding assumptions about the irreligious character of scientists around the world.

When asked about terms of conflict between religion and science, Ecklund noted that only a minority of scientists in each regional context believe that science and religion are in conflict. In the U.K. - one of the most secular countries studied - only 32 percent of scientists characterized the science-faith interface as one of conflict. In the U.S., this number was only 29 percent. And 25 percent of Hong Kong scientists, 27 percent of Indian scientists and 23 percent of Taiwanese scientists believed science and religion can coexist and be used to help each other....

For example, numerous scientists expressed how religion can provide a "check" in ethically gray areas.

"(Religion provides a) check on those occasions where you might be tempted to shortcut because you want to get something published and you think, 'Oh, that experiment wasn't really good enough, but if I portray it in this way, that will do,'" said a biology professor from the U.K....

Ecklund said that the study has many important implications that can be applied to university hiring processes, how classrooms and labs are structured and general public policy.

"Science is a global endeavor," Ecklund said. "And as long as science is global, then we need to recognize that the borders between science and religion are more permeable than most people think."

 

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

http://m.phys.org/news/2014-02-misconceptions-science-religion.html

Quote

The public's view that science and religion can't work in collaboration is a misconception that stunts progress, according to a new survey of more than 10,000 Americans, scientists and evangelical Protestants. The study by Rice University also found that scientists and the general public are surprisingly similar in their religious practices.

 

[Calm]

http://m.phys.org/news/2011-05-percent-atheist-scientists-spiritual.html
 

Quote

 

More than 20 percent of atheist scientists are spiritual, according to new research from Rice University. Though the general public marries spirituality and religion, the study found that spirituality is a separate idea – one that more closely aligns with scientific discovery – for "spiritual atheist" scientists....

Ecklund and Long noted that the spiritual scientists saw boundaries between themselves and their nonspiritual colleagues because their spirituality facilitated engagement with the world around them. Such engagement, according to the spiritual scientists, generated a different approach to research and teaching: While nonspiritual colleagues might focus on their own research at the expense of student interaction, spiritual scientists' sense of spiritualty provides nonnegotiable reasons for making sure that they help struggling students succeed.

 

 

[Calm]

Quote

 

A UQ study has found that young adults with a belief in a spiritual or higher power other than God were at more risk of poorer mental health and deviant social behaviour than those who rejected these beliefs. 

Young men who held non-traditional religious views were at twice the risk of being more anxious and depressed than those with traditional beliefs. 

The study was based on surveys of 3705 21-year-olds in Brisbane under the Mater-University of Queensland Study of Pregnancy.

 

http://m.phys.org/news/2008-01-religious-beliefs-focus.html

Interesting site....

[bcuzbcuz]

Back to the idea of drinking water for Noah, his family and all the animals on board.

If, after forty days and nights of rain, that resulted in the death of:  

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl and of cattle and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of life, all that was on the dry land, died.

23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man and cattle, and the creeping things and the fowl of the heaven, and they were destroyed from the earth. And Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

 

Wouldn't all that dead material: humans, animals, bugs and plants, have created a soupy scum of decaying material, floating on the surface, like a greasy oilspill?

 

How would Noah , from the one window on the ark, have fished up buckets of drinking water? Every bucket would have had a filthy layer of decaying material covering its surface. 

 

To those of you who have been to Ken Ham's pretend ark, did they display the water tanks that Noah and the animals (and dinosaurs) would have needed for the one year afloat?

[Calm]

https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-much-water-was-on-board-the-ark/

Quote

 

At the Ark Encounter, now under construction in northern Kentucky (see associated photo above), we have calculated approximately how much water would have been required for all of these activities. The Ark had more than enough space to comfortably house cisterns large enough for one-fourth of the required water, which is equivalent to roughly a three-month supply. Actually, there is enough space for even larger cisterns, but to keep the water from becoming stagnant it is better to continually replenish a smaller amount.

So where did all this fresh water come from? Noah could have used the Ark’s roof to collect and funnel rain to large cisterns. From there, the water could be piped to locations throughout the Ark.

Undoubtedly, there was enough rain during the initial phase of the Flood to keep the cisterns full, but would there be sufficient rainfall during the rest of the time they were on the Ark? Our calculations show that just one inch of rain per week would have kept the cisterns stocked. This is about the same amount as the average precipitation in Kentucky. The evaporation of warm floodwaters would have likely caused more than enough rain to fall during the remainder of Noah’s time on the Ark, ensuring they had plenty of water.

 

 

[bcuzbcuz]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-much-water-was-on-board-the-ark/

 

Thank you. But with the cisterns they've just halved the amount of space available for all the animals. They can't have it both ways.

But their calculation that an inch of rain per week would keep the cisterns topped up is far fetched. the numbers do not add up.

 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Thank you. But with the cisterns they've just halved the amount of space available for all the animals. They can't have it both ways.

But their calculation that an inch of rain per week would keep the cisterns topped up is far fetched. the numbers do not add up.

 

Yeah, I am wondering if they are thinking of it being so massive that would be tons of water, but given it is three floors of animals under that roof, the density of mouths seems to require more than what an inch would yield.  If I was more awake, I would calculate the gallons.

[bcuzbcuz]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Yeah, I am wondering if they are thinking of it being so massive that would be tons of water, but given it is three floors of animals under that roof, the density of mouths seems to require more than what an inch would yield.  If I was more awake, I would calculate the gallons.

Water as the ballast along the outside is not particularily structurally wise either. If the a´water was several floors high (as in the diagram) the boat would be very unstable.

[TheSkepticChristian]

On 8/18/2016 at 0:49 AM, The Nehor said:

The highest recorded rainfall in a 24 hour period was about 72 inches and that came from a tropical cyclone.

Was that enough to make a ship (with animals and people) float and travel? 

[Kemara]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Was that enough to make a ship (with animals and people) float and travel? 

I see that you still haven't found those stats.

No response for Calm either? Calm specifically addressed the posts to you.

[TheSkepticChristian]

11 hours ago, Kemara said:

I see that you still haven't found those stats.

what stats? that most Americans don't know basic science and don't read the science books? that is just an obvious fact. 

11 hours ago, Kemara said:

No response for Calm either? Calm specifically addressed the posts to you.

what post? 

Edited August 21, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[bcuzbcuz]

On 20 August 2016 at 3:43 PM, Calm said:

https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-much-water-was-on-board-the-ark/

 

They say their plans provide ¼ of the water needs for the voyage. Given the measurements in their design, the water for three months would weigh 5550 metric tonnes. That's roughly half of the gross tonnage that the ship would manage GT=KxV, 12035 metric tonnes. (Had Noah equipped the ship with sufficient water to provide for the whole voyage, there would be NO space for the animals AND the weight of the water would have sunk the ark.) It's easy to test. Fill a sink with water, float a bowl in it, then fill the bowl with water

[Kemara]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

what stats? that most Americans don't know basic science and don't read the science books? that is just an obvious fact. 

No, the stats that I have asked you to provide repeatedly on this thread.

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

what post? 

Good grief, you are a complete joke.