"Explanation" for how homosexuality survives if it is genetic

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

Gay people are physiologically different.

Sez le Vay.

[Stargazer]

21 hours ago, Gray said:

I don't know about any of that, but it appears that some women experience a change in womb environment if they've already had a couple of boys. It's like their bodies are programming younger boys to be gay. 

FWIW, my wife had ten children, with only one girl.  None of them are gay.

[Gray]

24 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

FWIW, my wife had ten children, with only one girl.  None of them are gay.

I come from a family of 10 as well. AFAIK none of us are gay either. 

[pcarthew]

18 hours ago, Gray said:

Gay people are physiologically different. That means we're looking for biological causes, not causes that might have something to do with conscious choices. 

There is no definitive study to support this.  Maybe one day but presently no. There are some studies that indicate difference in the brain, however they are far from complete. 

[Gray]

4 minutes ago, pcarthew said:

There is no definitive study to support this.  Maybe one day but presently no. There are some studies that indicate difference in the brain, however they are far from complete. 

There are a lot of studies that show physical differences, from what I can see. Not saying we have all the answers, scientifically, on this. But this strongly suggests (and that's backed up by anecdotal evidence from gay people and their families) that this something people are born with. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbian_women

[carbon dioxide]

23 hours ago, Gray said:

Gay people are physiologically different. That means we're looking for biological causes, not causes that might have something to do with conscious choices. 

Not sure how they are different.  There is no lab test one can do to prove one is gay.  I am not a expert in genetics but when I did take genetics in school, it made sense.  DNA to RNA ect.  I don't see a genetic mechanism that would cause Dave to choose Steve or Diane.  We all have our preferences but there is no genetic basis for it.  My DNA does not tell me what religion, politics, or music that I like.  I love 80s rock over country music but I don't have an 80s music gene.

[Gray]

10 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Not sure how they are different.  There is no lab test one can do to prove one is gay.  I am not a expert in genetics but when I did take genetics in school, it made sense.  DNA to RNA ect.  I don't see a genetic mechanism that would cause Dave to choose Steve or Diane.  We all have our preferences but there is no genetic basis for it.  My DNA does not tell me what religion, politics, or music that I like.  I love 80s rock over country music but I don't have an 80s music gene.

There doesn't appear to be a gay gene, but biology is broader than just genetics. 

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

There doesn't appear to be a gay gene, but biology is broader than just genetics. 

Sure.  Our biological systems don't run just on genetics.  Hormone levels can be influenced by lots of different factors is an example.

[Daniel2]

59 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

There is no lab test one can do to prove one is gay.

There certainly ARE lab tests that can measure sexual response arousal, thereby ascertaining individuals' sexual orientation. 

I am amazed at the level of ignorance on display in this thread regarding the subject of the physiological cases of sexual orientation. Just because it doesn't make sense to you or because you haven't studied the issue doesn't mean the evidence can explain one's misguided assumptions. For example, the concept of Kin Selection explains the reason why homosexualityou is likely an evolutionary adaptation that advances the perpetuation of a species, rather than curtail it. 

Gray is correct. There is ample evidence that sexual orientation is a product of genetics and environmental hormonal conditioning. Virtually all major professional medical and psychological professions accept that sexual orientation is innate and unchangeable, and largely a product of biology and hormonal environmental conditioning--the result of physiological factors, and not a matter of choice or change.

[mfbukowski]

22 hours ago, USU78 said:

Sez le Vay.

I didn't know he said that. 

[mfbukowski]

24 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

 

I am amazed at the level of ignorance on display in this thread regarding the subject of the physiological cases of sexual orientation.

Quite frankly this probably doesn't matter to anyone if you are not gay.

I am quite an expert on heart disease on the other hand.  I would be surprised if you are not.  Everyone needs to know it all.

Edited April 15, 2016 by mfbukowski

[rpn]

The 2012 science daily abstract mentioned at the end of page 1 in this thread above, is once again a computer model,  using the idea that epi-markers that are generally erased between generations, persist for gays.   And it states that even though researchers have looked, they have not yet found any genes that are linked with homosexuality.

1 hour ago, Daniel2 said:

There is ample evidence that sexual orientation is a product of genetics and environmental hormonal conditioning. Virtually all major professional medical and psychological professions accept that sexual orientation is innate and unchangeable, and largely a product of biology and hormonal environmental conditioning--the result of physiological factors, and not a matter of choice or change.

Please CFR.   I don't know that I've read much if any research that can be considered "ample evidence".   The second sentence is true, but I'm not sure that the acceptance is based on "ample evidence", rather than abhorrence at how societies have treated persons who are gay, and how conversion therapy simply didn't work.     The BYU professor's contention was that about 1/3 of the cases could  be related to mother's hormones in the womb.  I would agree that there is evidence it is not generally a matter of simple choice.    If there is any research to support the description that homosexuality has always occurred in all civilizations and cultures over all time, I haven't seen it.   What does an archeologist or historian have to find to know that it occurred at a particular place and time?  Can one really decide that David and Jonathan were gay lovers because of the poetry they shared?   I just don't think we yet know what causes it and to what degree that cause or causes apply to the entire universe of those who are gay.

Part of the problem, of course is that one cannot do double blind studies, random sampling or or other research techniques designed to remove bias.  Little of the research has been done by those without a foot somehow by family or otherwise in the gay community (and those in the gay community have sometimes declined to participate in research designed outside the gay friendly community).  No one knows even how many people are gay or why the percent of gays seems to differ by community, country, groups in a culture, and continent, with no apparent rhyme or reason.  (If we start asking whether a person claims LBGQT on US census, we will know more, but who is in favor of that given that 50 years later they'll be outed whether they like it or not when the census is published.)   And even if the research was able to study every gay person, what about those who don't presently think they are gay, or don't choose to so identify at the time they are asked?