Meadowchik Posted May 2, 2016 Author Posted May 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Best of luck. I'm sorry you're having this negative experience. You have a very forgiving attitude which is kind and gracious. But this is a form of unrighteous dominion. Sometimes a little fight is called for and very proper. Thank you. I'm glad I called my parents. It is a blessing to have their support and counsel.
ALarson Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 45 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: I've just finished my list of points to discuss with the Bishopric on Thursday. I want to have them well-laid out on paper so that I can efficiently convey our perspective, try to minimize the length of the meeting for all of us, but also it's important to get the words out in French so that I can be understood because I struggle more with it when I'm nervous. Oh wow, I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. From everything I can tell here, you have gone above and beyond to try to be fair and honorable with these tenants. If you can pass a temple recommend interview, they should not withhold your recommend from you. I'm sure once you clarify what is taking place here, things will be made right for you. Anyway, good luck and just remember to stay calm as you have nothing to hide here and have a clear conscience. 2
Meadowchik Posted May 17, 2016 Author Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Trying to condense the update: Soon after the bishop's call we writte a joint letter to the SP and he responded by saying the temporary suspension of temple recommends also applied to our neighbors until this matter is "clarified," not "resolved." The clarification interview was short but okay, but the one when the bishop called us in to hear his impressions was better. It included some "getting things off our chests" for both my husband and I and the bishop, which I think helped. In short, the bishop has said he won't interfere with the legal process and also won't bail out the neighbors if they lose. The SP says he will also take over this affair with a disciplinary hearing for the neighbor husband. After learning that from the SP, my husband decided to try once more to avoid a court battle by offering to stop all procedure if the neighbor simply pays his bills. We got a response yesterday afternoon, a very long one that was obviously negative but before reading it all, my husband came outside to tell me. It was then he saw the neighbor checking his mail and said he wanted to try to talk to him. I could see he was truly in a conciliatory state of mind and reluctantly agreed. The conversation lasted about 5 minutes, and the neighbor's tone was immediately hostile. The neighbor said at one point that he wanted to kill my husband. My husband then said, "Do you realize the gravity of what you're saying?" And neighbor replied , "There's no one here to hear." On his way inside, I said to the neighbor, "Think of your family," as it's already been acknowledged that his wife is very depressed over all this. He responded, "You think of YOUR family, you never know what can happen." The wonderful thing is that no less than 5 minutes after he went inside, our muscly friend dropped by unplanned with his twin brother. They drove my husband to report the death threat ( which is illegal and chargeable on the 2nd instance) and returned and gave me and my husband blessings of comfort and then rededicated our house, also praying for our neighbors. It was later that we read the email from the neighbor that day in full, which ended with, "I don't know to whom you think you're lying, but you cannot lie to God. You'll be looking up at him from the depths of Hell." This email reply, along with our original proposal, was cc'ed to the bishop. Which explains the dissonance with saying, "No one else can see me," outside. Sorry to be so long. It's 1am here and I'm planning to sleep on the couch to be able to hear this side of the house just in case. It seemed like a good time to update. This stinks. Btw, we'll be turning on our phone voice recorders whenever we're about to potentially pass the neighbor outside. I just wish we could find a way to legitimise our safety concerns with the judge when we appear. Tomorrow we talk to a lawyer and include that in the questions. Is there a moral to this story? 1. Get references from a potential tenant, even if they seem nice and are also LDS or similarly like-minded. Have an agency write up your contract, especially if it's your first time. 2. Evil can come in many forms, including apparently benign ones. 3. Prayer and the scriptures can key us into the protective guidance of the Spirit. 4. Really bad things can happen to you even if you are trying to be good. God doesn't mean for us to avoid them all. Edited May 17, 2016 by Meadowchik 2
Ginger Snaps Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 I'm so sorry it's escalated to this point. I've been following your story. I'll say a prayer for your family. 1
Meadowchik Posted May 19, 2016 Author Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ginger Snaps said: I'm so sorry it's escalated to this point. I've been following your story. I'll say a prayer for your family. Thank you. I've been feeling I'm on constant adrenaline since Monday. Except this morning when I walked through this with a trusted person who helped me get back in my rational head regarding our safety. It looks like our neighbor won't really try to hurt of us with physical violence, if we can attribute his behaviour to trying to intimidate us. So far we can. I can feel my blood pressure going down. Edited May 19, 2016 by Meadowchik
RevTestament Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 On 5/17/2016 at 5:37 PM, Meadowchik said: 1. Get references from a potential tenant, even if they seem nice and are also LDS or similarly like-minded. Have an agency write up your contract, especially if it's your first time. Hi Meadowchik, I assume you are in France, and I don't know French law, but yes, always use a contract, and in your case make sure it specifies what will be considered breach of contract, since that is about the only way you can end a tenancy, unless you have a family member you want to move in - I guess you can always use the space for an office for a little while. 19.1. Termination by Landlord There are specific procedures for termination of the tenancy by both the landlord and tenant that must be respected in order for them to have the force of law. This applies particularly in the case of the landlord notice of termination, where it is imperative that the notice is correctly drafted and sent out at the right time, or you risk that it may be declared invalid by a court of law, in which case the tenancy would be automatically renewed! In addition, in the cases of elderly tenants, there is potentially a rehousing obligation for the landlord. [since you don't have a written contract sites say this:] Top Tip! The advice and assistance of a huissier or managing estate agent in the termination process is highly recommended. The landlord is unable to terminate the tenancy before the expiry of the term, although recovery of possession of the property on grounds of breach of the tenancy agreement is possible, and is considered in the section on Legal Proceedings. The minimum notice period (called le congé) that must be given by a landlord depends on whether it is a furnished or unfurnished letting. Unfurnished Letting - Six months Furnished Letting - Three months This notice period starts either six or three months prior to the expiry date of the tenancy, depending on type of letting. If you miss the window to give notice, the tenancy is automatically renewed. The notice must be sent by recorded delivery or delivered by a huissier, and must state the reasons why the landlord wishes to recover possession. There are only three grounds at the end of the term of the tenancy on which the landlord can recover the property, failing which the tenancy automatically renews itself, provided the tenant wishes to remain in the property. In the case of an unfurnished letting, renewal is for a further three years, (six years in the case of letting by a property company) or for a further year in the case of a furnished letting. The three grounds for termination of the tenancy are: Landlord Occupation Sale of Property Breach of Tenancy Conditions from my review it seems it would be wise to rent the space furnished - could include a used bed, fridge, etc, so the contract could have a term of one year instead of three. Let me say the French system really seems unreasonable, and seems so onerous that they are probably dissuading the building of new apartments, and so are making the situation worse. Sorry this advice doesn't help you much right now. 2
Meadowchik Posted May 19, 2016 Author Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, RevTestament said: Hi Meadowchik, I assume you are in France, and I don't know French law, but yes, always use a contract, and in your case make sure it specifies what will be considered breach of contract, since that is about the only way you can end a tenancy, unless you have a family member you want to move in - I guess you can always use the space for an office for a little while. 19.1. Termination by Landlord There are specific procedures for termination of the tenancy by both the landlord and tenant that must be respected in order for them to have the force of law. This applies particularly in the case of the landlord notice of termination, where it is imperative that the notice is correctly drafted and sent out at the right time, or you risk that it may be declared invalid by a court of law, in which case the tenancy would be automatically renewed! In addition, in the cases of elderly tenants, there is potentially a rehousing obligation for the landlord. [since you don't have a written contract sites say this:] Top Tip! The advice and assistance of a huissier or managing estate agent in the termination process is highly recommended. The landlord is unable to terminate the tenancy before the expiry of the term, although recovery of possession of the property on grounds of breach of the tenancy agreement is possible, and is considered in the section on Legal Proceedings. The minimum notice period (called le congé) that must be given by a landlord depends on whether it is a furnished or unfurnished letting. Unfurnished Letting - Six months Furnished Letting - Three months This notice period starts either six or three months prior to the expiry date of the tenancy, depending on type of letting. If you miss the window to give notice, the tenancy is automatically renewed. The notice must be sent by recorded delivery or delivered by a huissier, and must state the reasons why the landlord wishes to recover possession. There are only three grounds at the end of the term of the tenancy on which the landlord can recover the property, failing which the tenancy automatically renews itself, provided the tenant wishes to remain in the property. In the case of an unfurnished letting, renewal is for a further three years, (six years in the case of letting by a property company) or for a further year in the case of a furnished letting. The three grounds for termination of the tenancy are: Landlord Occupation Sale of Property Breach of Tenancy Conditions from my review it seems it would be wise to rent the space furnished - could include a used bed, fridge, etc, so the contract could have a term of one year instead of three. Let me say the French system really seems unreasonable, and seems so onerous that they are probably dissuading the building of new apartments, and so are making the situation worse. Sorry this advice doesn't help you much right now. Thank you, RevTestament. We do have a contract, but it is for FIVE YEARS! So, legally they have almost 3.5 years left if we terminate with notice. We've sent the huissier for the nonpayments, we've made a report with the gendarmerie for the death threat, and we're preparing to send a second huissier for the unlawful occupation of the newly constructed portion. (My husband held off the 2nd huissier to see how they responded to the first...And they did so very badly.) So we will be seeing a lawyer to be well-prepared to see the judge for the matter of the nonpayments. Our point looks strong and has already been upheld by the supreme court of France, as far as we can tell. Yet we want to get advice for the situation from a more global perspective, all the various issues including the safety concern. And today I am feeling much better. A talk with a friend helped me get back into rational thinking. I am no longer afraid, and I feel I understand the neighbor much more, even if we cannot condone his behaviour. I believe he has lost some cognitive abilities because of extended high dose morphine use and also struggles with impulse control as a result of sleep deprivation from chronic illness. Paradoxically we have to prepare to evict them and at the same time we're ready to minimize their penalties (and possibly resume improvements if they don't kick out the handyman). That said, they say that they want to leave ASAP. We're not counting on that, though. It is hard to find a similar property around here for even 25 percent more than what we charge in rent. They were in government housing previously and we just asked them to pay us the same amount. Fortunately that gets paid directly by Welfare...the nonpayments concern utility charges, as we have collective heating. Edited May 19, 2016 by Meadowchik 1
Meadowchik Posted May 21, 2016 Author Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Surprise! Yesterday the bishop dropped by and said the neighbours wanted to pay all the bills so we could stop the court process. We agreed, of course; and ironed out a few more issues. We don't know exactly why, but grateful that conflict seems to be reducing! Edited May 21, 2016 by Meadowchik 3
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