Avatar4321 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Quote On the last occasion that Jesus had supper with the Twelve, he washed their feet, broke bread for them, and passed them the cup; then, after Judas had left their midst, the Master spoke to them at some length. Among other things, he told of his impending death and of the legacy he left for each of them. He had accumulated no goods, property, nor wealth. The record tells us of no possessions other than the clothing he wore, and on the next day after the crucifixion this would be divided by the soldiers, who would cast lots for his coat. His bequest was given to his disciples in these simple yet profound words: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” (John 14:27.) He used the Jewish form of salutation and benediction: “My peace I give unto you.” This salutation and bequest was not to be taken by them in the usual sense, for he said, “… not as the world giveth, give I unto you.” Not empty wishes, not just polite ceremony, as the people of the world use the words as matters of custom; but as the author and Prince of peace, he gave it to them. He bestowed it upon them and said, “Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” Within a few hours they would be subjected to trouble, but with his peace they could overcome fear and stand firm. Was studying this in priesthood earlier and it struck me that Jesus is about to go through the atonement and crucifictioncrucifiction, the most painful experience of His life and here He is trying to give His disciples comfort. Amazing! 1
Calm Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 The Atonement is to bring comfort to others so it seems to me that it is consistent behaviour. He lived his entire life for the purpose of helping others, after all. And it might have been comforting to himself to be able to think about others at that time than what was coming up.
Ahab Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 Yes it is amazing that he felt at peace while he knew what would be happening next. He knew he was about to go through some very trying times, pretty much as a lamb to the slaughter. And I think he still felt at peace when he was in physical agony in the garden of Gethsemane and bleeding from every pore of his skin. At peace with God because he knew he was doing the right thing, with no feeling of guilt for what he was doing or had done or would yet do. The perfect depiction of Peace, even in the midst of turmoil and pain.
consiglieri Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 My question is how anybody can have confidence that this quote attributed to Jesus in John's gospel some 60-years after the incident it portrays is accurate. Especially when it appears in none of the other gospels which were almost certainly written closer in time to the event.
The Nehor Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 1 hour ago, consiglieri said: My question is how anybody can have confidence that this quote attributed to Jesus in John's gospel some 60-years after the incident it portrays is accurate. Especially when it appears in none of the other gospels which were almost certainly written closer in time to the event. Magic. I also disagree with the dating.
Zakuska Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 How do we reconcile this love peace and flowers for everyone Jesus to the Lion of Judah Jesus depicted by Mathew? Mat 10 34 Think not that I am come to sendpeace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
Avatar4321 Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 4 hours ago, consiglieri said: My question is how anybody can have confidence that this quote attributed to Jesus in John's gospel some 60-years after the incident it portrays is accurate. Especially when it appears in none of the other gospels which were almost certainly written closer in time to the event. the Holy Spirit. How do you not know this ?
Avatar4321 Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Zakuska said: How do we reconcile this love peace and flowers for everyone Jesus to the Lion of Judah Jesus depicted by Mathew? Mat 10 34 Think not that I am come to sendpeace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. peace in spirit is not the same as peace on the earth.
Avatar4321 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Posted January 19, 2016 what did everyone else think of the lesson?
volgadon Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said: what did everyone else think of the lesson? We had such an incredible lesson that we ran six minutes late and didn't even get to the manual, beyond a quick bit from the life of president Hunter, and this quote in the OP because the teacher asked everyone in turn to share an experience of peace from the spirit, either a personal experience or one from church history or the scriptures. Some really choice experiences, including an account of a miraculous conversion at the Kyiv temple open house. This is a good idea for a backup, impromptu lesson, too. Now, the quote itself, I think, misses the point because shalom aleichem is meant to invoke God's blessings, but this is a minor quibble with the teachings of my favourite prophet. 2
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 21 hours ago, The Nehor said: Magic. I also disagree with the dating. On what basis? Magic?
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 18 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: the Holy Spirit. How do you not know this ? The Holy Spirit can date documents now?
consiglieri Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 13 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: what did everyone else think of the lesson? I honestly think it is a nice message. Even when it contradicts reality.
The Nehor Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 4 hours ago, consiglieri said: On what basis? Magic? I disagree with the premises with which the current dating is justified. While I respect much of the learning of biblical scholars I do not trust their judgement nearly as much. It would take a whole thread to explain why I disagree. Maybe some day I will make one.
volgadon Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 On 18/01/2016 at 10:52 AM, consiglieri said: My question is how anybody can have confidence that this quote attributed to Jesus in John's gospel some 60-years after the incident it portrays is accurate. Especially when it appears in none of the other gospels which were almost certainly written closer in time to the event. The assumption that the author of John invented everything is a simplistic one. In the case of this quote, I see no good reason for John to make it up. 2
halconero Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 1 hour ago, volgadon said: The assumption that the author of John invented everything is a simplistic one. In the case of this quote, I see no good reason for John to make it up. It's pretty much like arguing the falsity of Alexander the Great's exploits because all of the accounts we have of him were written down after he died. Texts regarding significant were individuals were commonly compiled years after their death, and regarding people far more famous than Jesus would've been around the time of his crucifixion. 2
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