Duncan Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) So, there was a missionary who served in my folks ward over a year ago and went home in Feb of this year. In my parents ward is a guy who is in his 80's and is a non member but attends sometimes, his wife is a lifelong member and they raised their two kids in the Church. Apparently this former elder had a dream recently that this non member brother needed to watch some Church video, not sure which one. So, a couple of brethren in the stake that know him are going to set up watching this video in hopes the guy will convert. Personally I think this whole scenario is hooey balooey and why the elders serving in that ward now didn't get this revelation but on the other hand maybe the former elder was the only one up to receiving revelation? What do you think about all this? edit, I know a former elder that served with him and said this is unusual for him but he does likes to be the centre of attention Edited December 9, 2015 by Duncan
Tony Frank Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 God has used dreams to show things to people throughout time. Maybe the 80-ish guy was not ready until now, and maybe the currently serving elders would dismiss such a dream. God works in mysterious ways. There is no reason to dismiss the story. Worst thing that can happen is the 80-ish guy wastes time seeing a Church video, and the best thing that can happen is he gets baptized. 2
Tacenda Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) You never know Duncan. Maybe people leaving him alone after so long, if that's the case, this guy may just have been waiting for someone to act as if they still care, if he joined or not. Too often members don't want to step on toes etc. My experience after telling my bishop, now SP, I'm struggling to believe, is total hands off. Maybe if he'd reached out to me, checked on me I might be back in, with a testimony of some kind. The RS also has been total hands off, has totally left me wondering. Though some people think they're stepping on toes, it might actually show someone cares. Edited December 9, 2015 by Tacenda 4
Crypto Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 It could also be something that will edify his life, that he needs to see. The result doesn't have to be him joining the Church.
hagoth7 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 5 hours ago, Duncan said: ...Personally I think this whole scenario is hooey balooey and why the elders serving in that ward now didn't get this revelation but on the other hand maybe the former elder was the only one up to receiving revelation? What do you think about all this? In my opinion? Quench not... Joel 2. Something like this isn't something I'd want to stand in the way of without very good cause. Which elder spent more time pondering the needs of the man in question? What would it matter that he is hundreds of miles away. Who is my neighbor? 5 hours ago, Duncan said: edit, I know a former elder that served with him and said this is unusual for him but he does likes to be the centre of attention I don't quite follow. How would making a suggestion from what could be hundreds of miles away involve being in the center of attention? In my opinion, based on the limited evidence presented, what I suspect is that the former elder is simply an introvert (like most of us in internet fora), while the other is more likely an extrovert (thrives on being in the center of the attention), and the former who can't relate to such a thing, simply hasn't yet taken the time to understand that being an extrovert doesn't necessarily equate to pride/arrogance....even though an introvert might erroneously chalk it up to such a thing. An extrovert, if that is what the one elder is, can receive inspiration just as readily as an introvert. Next door. A thousand miles away. Doesn't matter. A true neighbor is a neighbor. 2
Duncan Posted December 9, 2015 Author Posted December 9, 2015 5 hours ago, hagoth7 said: In my opinion? Quench not... Joel 2. Something like this isn't something I'd want to stand in the way of without very good cause. Which elder spent more time pondering the needs of the man in question? What would it matter that he is hundreds of miles away. Who is my neighbor? I don't quite follow. How would making a suggestion from what could be hundreds of miles away involve being in the center of attention? In my opinion, based on the limited evidence presented, what I suspect is that the former elder is simply an introvert (like most of us in internet fora), while the other is more likely an extrovert (thrives on being in the center of the attention), and the former who can't relate to such a thing, simply hasn't yet taken the time to understand that being an extrovert doesn't necessarily equate to pride/arrogance....even though an introvert might erroneously chalk it up to such a thing. An extrovert, if that is what the one elder is, can receive inspiration just as readily as an introvert. Next door. A thousand miles away. Doesn't matter. A true neighbor is a neighbor. I get that but the jist that the comp of this elder to me was that he wants to be the one that got this older brother to join the church, he couldn't do it before and won't let it go. All of my time in the Church i've been taught that you can't receive revelation for anyone out of your stewardship. So, that's why i am questioning the former elder's revelation, if God wants this older brother to join the church why won't he send a revelation to the current elder's or the Bishop or EQ Pres. or High Priest's group guy. I mean, I hope for the best but it sounds goofy to me
Storm Rider Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Duncan, there are a couple things going here. First, revelation is open to all. I like to think of revelation as this tremendous beam of light. We can tough it, but our hand in it, and walk in it. The more we dwell in this world of revelation the more all things will be opened to us. What we can learn through revelation is unlimited. Knowing does not mean we have been chosen to lead, preside, or reveal. There is only one man on the earth that can speak for the Church, that has full access to exercise the Keys of the priesthood. However, this does not mean that revelation is limited for all other people. Second, dreams have been used in many ways by God during the history of the world. Is this a true dream or is it something else? I don't know. I cannot sense anything about his request to show a film. My initial reaction is that it could not hurt. More importantly, showing the film may actually have a positive impact on this gentleman, but still not result in his choosing to be baptized. To me it is an opportunity to meet with the fellow and have no expectations about the outcome except that you are sharing a message of the gospel with him. 3
Duncan Posted December 9, 2015 Author Posted December 9, 2015 27 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: Duncan, there are a couple things going here. First, revelation is open to all. I like to think of revelation as this tremendous beam of light. We can tough it, but our hand in it, and walk in it. The more we dwell in this world of revelation the more all things will be opened to us. What we can learn through revelation is unlimited. Knowing does not mean we have been chosen to lead, preside, or reveal. There is only one man on the earth that can speak for the Church, that has full access to exercise the Keys of the priesthood. However, this does not mean that revelation is limited for all other people. Second, dreams have been used in many ways by God during the history of the world. Is this a true dream or is it something else? I don't know. I cannot sense anything about his request to show a film. My initial reaction is that it could not hurt. More importantly, showing the film may actually have a positive impact on this gentleman, but still not result in his choosing to be baptized. To me it is an opportunity to meet with the fellow and have no expectations about the outcome except that you are sharing a message of the gospel with him. true but I can't have a dream about someone marrying me, she would take off running! isn't there established paths for who can receive revelation for whom and then that person can do what they will with it?
hagoth7 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) 5 hours ago, Storm Rider said: Duncan, there are a couple things going here. First, revelation is open to all. I like to think of revelation as this tremendous beam of light. We can tough it, but our hand in it, and walk in it. The more we dwell in this world of revelation the more all things will be opened to us. What we can learn through revelation is unlimited.... What also comes to the fore for me here is Nephi's vision, when he asked to be shown what his father had seen. Nephi specifically mentioned that one thing revealed to him that his father missed because "so much was his mind swallowed up in other things". That's why I asked, who was pondering the welfare of the man in question more? Were the other elders' minds swallowed up in other aspects of the work in their area? Duncan says: "All of my time in the Church i've been taught that you can't receive revelation for anyone out of your stewardship." Understood. To counterbalance that paradigm: every member a missionary....ward boundaries don't matter. In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether the elder was even still wearing a name badge or not, or had been released. He was still a member, and clearly still a neighbor. So in my view, he still had right to receive inspiration on any matter he asked about. Whether it's deemed authoritative or not may be more of a bureaucratic issue. Whether it's deemed true and charitable is another matter. And like the example with Lehi and Nephi, Nephi exercised his right to know/see what his father knew/saw, the elders (and ward mission leader) still serving in that ward have every right to ask for confirmation of what the other elder received. Edited December 9, 2015 by hagoth7 3
Storm Rider Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 23 minutes ago, Duncan said: true but I can't have a dream about someone marrying me, she would take off running! isn't there established paths for who can receive revelation for whom and then that person can do what they will with it? My wife had a dream that I would marry her - which was something that neither of us would have not considered at the time. I think you may need to more precisely define who can and cannot have a dream and about what. If I understood you correctly then something is wrong or my wife experienced something she should not have. You are confusing a dream as taking away another's agency. A prophet and others dreams dreams, but none of these individuals take away the agency of the individuals involved. Does that make sense? Simply knowing a future event does not affect the future. A prophet sees the future, specifically the future of others rather than just his own. 3
hagoth7 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) For something closer to your neck of the woods, I suggest googling: quaker woman cardston temple . The President of the Cardston Temple expressed zero qualms about that woman's experience...who wasn't even a member. He raised no red flags. No priesthood leader in the area that I know of in the area has done so either in the near-century that has passed since. Do you think President Wood and others were "going off the reservation" because of that? Edited December 9, 2015 by hagoth7
Duncan Posted December 9, 2015 Author Posted December 9, 2015 11 minutes ago, hagoth7 said: For something closer to your neck of the woods, I suggest googling: quaker woman cardston temple . The President of the Cardston Temple expressed zero qualms about that woman's experience...who wasn't even a member. He raised no red flags. No priesthood leader in the area that I know of in the area has done so either in the near-century that has passed since. Do you think President Wood and others were "going off the reservation" because of that? um, I have never heard of that experience! care to share? thank you!
Robert F. Smith Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 2 hours ago, Duncan said: um, I have never heard of that experience! care to share? thank you! I googled it as hagoth suggested and found it at http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/dreams-a-visions/59-dreams-a-visions/93-the-cardston-temple-vision-world-war-iii . However, I don't know whether it is authentic. First I had heard of it. 2
hagoth7 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) I first heard of it as a young boy from my mother. (My parents were raised not far from the Cardston temple.) The topic gets discussed in online threads from time to time, although I don't specifically recall it being discussed in this forum. Edited December 9, 2015 by hagoth7 1
Calm Posted December 11, 2015 Posted December 11, 2015 It tends to get discussed in the NDE/Last days forums from what I've seen. If it was mentioned here, it was only once or twice.
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