Non-Apostle In The First Presidency - Would It Happen Again?

[JLHPROF]

Just doing a bit of reading, and noticing how many men served in the first presidency who were not Apostles when called.

 

Question 1: - Does anyone think this would happen today? 

(And please spare me the "if God willed it" answers - looking for more practical responses).

 

Question 2: - Would they hold sufficient priesthood office/sealing keys to perform any necessary ordinances if not apostles?

 

 

FIRST PRESIDENCY MEMBERS NOT APOSTLES

 

Sidney Rigdon (1833) - ordained a prophet, seer and revelator, but never held the apostleship

Frederick G. Williams (1833) - HC 2:187 as part of First Presidency blessed the 3 witnesses prior to their ordaining the first apostles.

John C. Bennett (1841) - assistant president, just realized I have no idea what priesthood office he held

William Law (1841) - never an apostle?

John R. Winder (1901)  - might never have held the apostleship

Charles W. Nibley (1925) - never held the apostleship

J. Reuben Clark (1933) - not called to the apostleship till a year later

Thorpe B. Isaacson (1965) - "4th counselor" never an apostle

 

 

[strappinglad]

Why not?  The talent pool from which to draw within the current GAs is pretty broad and deep so if a situation were to arise in which a particular talent was needed ,I assume a non-apostle could be used. Their duties would be restricted I would think.

[oremites]

Question 2: - Would they hold sufficient priesthood office/sealing keys to perform any necessary ordinances if not apostles?

 

 

What are the necessary ordinances that require priesthood office/sealing keys that such a member of the First Presidency would be required to perform?

[JLHPROF]

What are the necessary ordinances that require priesthood office/sealing keys that such a member of the First Presidency would be required to perform?

 

Well, I am not assuming they would perform any ordinance for which they didn't hold authority.

For example, they would be unable to assist in ordaining a new apostle or unable to performing temple sealings unless set apart as a temple sealer would be.

 

And while they may hold a higher authority in the Church hierarchy, their personal priesthood authority would be below that of any member of the quorum of the twelve.  An Apostle doesn't answer to a High Priest.  However, the Apostleship can be answerable to the First Presidency.  So it would just be an interesting situation purely from a priesthood point of view.

Edited November 8, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Avatar4321]

I don't see why it would happen. Why not ordain them?

[JLHPROF]

I don't see why it would happen. Why not ordain them?

 

See, that's my question too, along with why didn't the men I listed just get ordained?  (Not making any judgements, just curious about the thinking).

[JAHS]

See, that's my question too, along with why didn't the men I listed just get ordained?  (Not making any judgements, just curious about the thinking).

I don't know except back then the GA structure was different than it is now. When Thorpe B. Isaacson was made the fourth Counselor he was an Assistant to the Quorum of Twelve; a position that hasn't existed since 1976.  I think if they knew of someone who had the experience they needed at a particular time they would call that person to be an assistant, rather than disrupt the structure and assignments of the Quorum of Twelve. Apparently there was no requirement for them to be ordained an Apostle.  There may be something about there only being 15 Prophets, seer, and revelators at a time on the earth.  According to the scriptures:

 

22 Of the Melchizedek Priesthood, three Presiding High Priests, chosen by the body, appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church, form a quorum of the Presidency of the Church.

 

 23 The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world—thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.

 

 24 And they form a quorum, equal in authority and power to the three presidents previously mentioned. (D&C 197: 22-23)

 

These scriptures specifically mention three in the presidency and then the twelve. = 15

[cinepro]

 

I don't know except back then the GA structure was different than it is now.

 

 

I agree.  While it's theoretically possible, I think the changes in emphasis and "streamlined" relationship between the FP and Q12 over the past few decades make it extremely unlikely that a non-Apostle would be called to the FP. 

 

I think the biggest change is that with Presidents Kimball and Benson, their declining health required their counselors to effectively run the Church for a period of time (becoming, in effect, proxy-Presidents of the Church).  That would be really difficult to do with a counselor in the FP who wasn't also an Apostle in the Q12 in the direct line of succession.