To Be Humble

[pogi]

Good points, but I was thinking more in the direction of institutional rameumptums. "We thank thee God for making us more chosen, more righteous than our non-member neighbors. We thank thee that we have the one true gospel whereas everyone else is deceived." Etc. etc.

 

I think there is significant self-righteousness institutionalized in the doctrines of the church that can easily be taken as a form of pride individually.

 

There is a distinct difference between the Zoramites and the LDS.  I have never sensed an ounce of hubris from the church as an institution.  We do not oppress others, like the Zoramites did, to gain the higher position; rather we seek to lift others up to equal ground.  We would make our place with Alma among the poor. 

 

Did Christ not teach, "you are the light of the world"?  Did he not teach us to put our lamp on a stand, and on a hill, so that all can see of our good works, to be a leader for others?  On initial comparison, one would say that Christ is teaching a rameumptom type of lifting oneself up above others (placing oneself on a stand or a hill above others).  However, Christ, and His Church, do not speak from their mouths to be seen for their goodness in vanity, but they speak from their heart so that other's can see of their good works and glorify God.  That is the difference.  We do it to glorify God, not ourselves.  We do it to serve and lift others up, and not to oppress.  

 

Would you have us put our light under a bushel?

Would you have us not offer heart felt gratitude for the gospel in our lives?

Would you have us dismiss or sell our birthright?

 

I would fear to offend God in all of this.

Edited September 29, 2015 by pogi

[VideoGameJunkie]

KevinG that was a little bit immature response.

[The Nehor]

Good points, but I was thinking more in the direction of institutional rameumptums. "We thank thee God for making us more chosen, more righteous than our non-member neighbors. We thank thee that we have the one true gospel whereas everyone else is deceived." Etc. etc.

 

I think there is significant self-righteousness institutionalized in the doctrines of the church that can easily be taken as a form of pride individually.

I would argue that anyone who gets pride from being a member of the church needs to spend more time in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. They do not spend a lot of time elevating church members.

[HappyJackWagon]

There is a distinct difference between the Zoramites and the LDS.  I have never sensed an ounce of hubris from the church as an institution.  We do not oppress others, like the Zoramites did, to gain the higher position; rather we seek to lift others up to equal ground.  We would make our place with Alma among the poor. 

 

Did Christ not teach, "you are the light of the world"?  Did he not teach us to put our lamp on a stand, and on a hill, so that all can see of our good works, to be a leader for others?  On initial comparison, one would say that Christ is teaching a rameumptom type of lifting oneself up above others (placing oneself on a stand or a hill above others).  However, Christ, and His Church, do not speak from their mouths to be seen for their goodness in vanity, but they speak from their heart so that other's can see of their good works and glorify God.  That is the difference.  We do it to glorify God, not ourselves.  We do it to serve and lift others up, and not to oppress.  

 

Would you have us put our light under a bushel?

Would you have us not offer heart felt gratitude for the gospel in our lives?

Would you have us dismiss or sell our birthright?

 

I would fear to offend God in all of this.

I understand what you're saying, but the simple act of reaching down to lift someone up to our station is in itself a prideful framing. To believe that we are in the position to lift others to reach our status presumes that we are at a higher status.

 

We should not hide our light under a bushel but we must recognize it is not our light. It's the light of Christ that may reflect through us in some degree. So we don't hide Christ under a bushel but we also don't set ourselves up as that light.

[The Nehor]

I understand what you're saying, but the simple act of reaching down to lift someone up to our station is in itself a prideful framing. To believe that we are in the position to lift others to reach our status presumes that we are at a higher status.

 

We should not hide our light under a bushel but we must recognize it is not our light. It's the light of Christ that may reflect through us in some degree. So we don't hide Christ under a bushel but we also don't set ourselves up as that light.

It does presume a higher status but we are going to do that anyways. The secret to humility is, as was said above, to not think about yourself so the differences do not matter. Humility does not imply some base level equality amongst all. To be smart is better then to be stupid, to be beautiful is better then to be ugly, to be personable is better then to be off-putting, to be spiritually strong is better then to be spiritually weak, etc. Denying this is dishonest.

A truly humble person can acknowledge they are spiritually stronger then someone and step in to help because they do not think of it in terms of comparisons and when they do they compare themselves to God and that gap overwhelms all others.

Insisting on brute force equality is a form of pride. It is the notion of "I am as good as you are" which, as C.S. Lewis pointed out, no one who says it really believes. That you make the comparison and have that feeling reveals that you feel inferior to them. When I have that feeling it is about people smarter, spiritually stronger, more attractive, or whatever then I am. I never feel it about the idiot, the social outcast, or the spiritual weakling.

[pogi]

the simple act of reaching down to lift someone up to our station is in itself a prideful framing.

 

Really?  Think about the implications of what that means for society.  

 

Furthermore:

 

 

 

Inequality does not equal pride; inequality is reality.  If this is not Christ's church, then the LDS may be guilty of ignorance, but nothing more. 

 

Do you acknowledge that the house of Israel are God's chosen people?

Do you believe that all people are of the house of Israel?

 

We should not hide our light under a bushel but we must recognize it is not our light. 

 

CFR that we do not do that already.

 

"I see the light shining in your faces. That light comes from the Lord, and as you radiate that light, it will bless you and many others." - Pres. Faust

 

Excellent talk entitled Your Light - a Standard to All Nations.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/04/your-light-a-standard-to-all-nations?lang=eng

 

So we don't hide Christ under a bushel but we also don't set ourselves up as that light.

 

"You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go forth..." (John 15:16)

 

CFR that we have set ourselves up as that light.  As I recall, it was God the Father and Jesus Christ who called for the establishment of this church and commanded us to preach the gospel to all peoples.  

 

"And faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God, qualify him for the work.

Remember faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence (D&C 4)."

Edited September 29, 2015 by pogi

[HappyJackWagon]

Really?  Think about the implications of what that means for society.  

 

Furthermore:

 

 

 

Inequality does not equal pride; inequality is reality.  If this is not Christ's church, then the LDS may be guilty of ignorance, but nothing more. 

 

Do you acknowledge that the house of Israel are God's chosen people?

Do you believe that all people are of the house of Israel?

 

 

 

CFR that we do not do that already.

 

 

 

"You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go forth..." (John 15:16)

 

CFR that we have set ourselves up as that light.  As I recall, it was God the Father and Jesus Christ who called for the establishment of this church and commanded us to preach the gospel to all peoples.  

Pogi,

 

It's kind of punkish to ask for a CFR on things that were clearly stated as my opinion or as a possibility. I don't even think you're arguing with the content of what I said. I thought we were having a good discussion but I'm done if this is going to be your approach. It's time to get off the computer anyway.

[pogi]

Pogi,

 

It's kind of punkish to ask for a CFR on things that were clearly stated as my opinion or as a possibility. I don't even think you're arguing with the content of what I said. I thought we were having a good discussion but I'm done if this is going to be your approach. It's time to get off the computer anyway.

 

Sorry, it was not clear to me.  I called for CFRs in what appeared to me to be baseless accusations.  Either way, the CFR was not intended to be punkish, but simply to help you realize that your opinion has no foundation in the teachings and documented history of the church.  Quite the contrary.   

[Teancum]

Humility comes easy to me. I just look at all the flawed people around me, thank God I am better then them, and am humbled that God is as good as I am and there is another like me in the Universe and I am only kind of special.

 

 

Indeed you are a legend in your own mind....

[The Nehor]

Indeed you are a legend in your own mind....

 

It is important to feel important.

[Bee Sweet]

To me the definition of humble is, when you finally get on your knees, ask for the Lord's help, and realize you cannot do this by yourself.

[Rain2]

I was teaching president Benson's beware of pride talk last week. Not my best work despite the material being amazing.

Anyway, I can't stop thinking about it. I'm a very proud man and I known the Lord wants a humble people. And I've read many things on being humble, I just don't feel like I know how to be so.

It's been in my heart and prayers so much lately. This is something I truly desire. I'm just not sure I'm making any meaningful impact in changing yet and it's frustrating.

Does anyone else struggle with this? What can we do to be humble? Any good in as instruction? How do we translate teaching into actions?

Three years ago, for the first time, I decided to make a scripture as my motto for the year.  I asked Heavenly Father what it should be and he told me Ether 12:27.   That year I thought about it and worked on it and for months I didn't feel I was getting anywhere.  In fact, it went on long enough that I started to wonder just what I was aiming for because I wasn't feeling any real change.  

 

Eight months later my husband lost his job.  I kind of lost track of having it as something I was working on in between helping him find a job, getting the house ready to move and having him move here before I did.

 

I can tell you when I started, just barely started, to feel humbled and in hind site to be worked on by the master's hand.   Two nights before I left my old home, I went visiting teaching.  The sister I taught had lived in Mesa before and asked where our rental home was.  I told her.  My companion I looked it up on her phone and I discovered that all the time I had spent trying to find a home in boundaries for the school we wanted to have our kids in  was just a few feet outside of the boundaries.  I'm not going to get in to why that was important right now.  Just know that I panicked big time.  Instead of listening to the Lord I listened to my own panic.  

 

Insert long story of how I became a big giant mess.  

 

Then after arriving here EVERYTHING became hard for me.  My husband calls it, "Patty Does It Hard".  Things that should have been as easy became a process.  I should have been able to walk into the DMV and got my license, but because of a mix-up it took SO much more effort.  And that's how life has been for me since moving here.

 

In the process the Lord has "let me do it myself" quite a bit and I began to understand just how much he has been doing for me. It's now been 2 years and 10 months and I'm not there yet! There are 2 things He wants me to work on to become humbled more.  There may be more.  I don't know.  

 

Anyway, in a nutshell, I think that humbling process may be pretty serious, quick and drastic.  For others, like me, it may be a long time before you feel anything different. 

 

I understand what you're saying, but the simple act of reaching down to lift someone up to our station is in itself a prideful framing. To believe that we are in the position to lift others to reach our status presumes that we are at a higher status.

 

We should not hide our light under a bushel but we must recognize it is not our light. It's the light of Christ that may reflect through us in some degree. So we don't hide Christ under a bushel but we also don't set ourselves up as that light.

 

This rings true to me.  As I read it then it was kind of like bells going off saying to me that this is important. There is something to be said for recognizing our strengths and helping others, but I think the two can go together.  I'll have to keep thinking about this to figure out how it works.