ALarson Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Here's the link for the essays listed on lds.org:https://www.lds.org/topics?lang=eng Is it a glitch in my system, or is the essay on "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo" missing from the list? I also don't see the essay on "The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage". I'll keep looking, but I sent someone this link today and I just want to make sure I sent them the correct link!
Calm Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 You need to click on "all categories" for it to come up in the search engine. For some reason when clicking to narrow the search to "topics" the specific topic does not always come up...at least that is what happened last time I checked this. The links are also embedded in the plural marriage in general topic...it is possible that they want to encourage people to read that first before moving on to the subtopics in plural marriage: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=eng 1
ALarson Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 You need to click on "all categories" for it to come up in the search engine. For some reason when clicking to narrow the search to "topics" the specific topic does not always come up...at least that is what happened last time I checked this. The links are also embedded in the plural marriage in general topic...it is possible that they want to encourage people to read that first before moving on to the subtopics in plural marriage: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=engThanks for the links calmoriah. So all of the essays are not included in the list? I wasn't aware of that. Where is the link for "all categories"? Is that the simplest way to access these? Sorry for all the questions and I appreciate your help.
JulieM Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 What? The essay discussing Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry is missing in the list of essay links on lds.org? To find them you have to click another link and the link to it is embedded in that one? Could they have made it more difficult to access this essay? Calmoriah, you are one if the kindest posters on here (and most willing to help anyone), but can you see why it's frustrating when people claim the church doesn't hide this information, but then they do this? Doesn't that seem at all odd to you? Arrrggghhh!!! 2
Calm Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) When you do a search, on the lefthand side you can specify the area you want to search. If you just use the "topics" choice, it doesn't pull up every topic for some reason...I think it is likely just not completely formatted correctly. If you use "all categories" or "top results" using search terms "plural marriage" and "kirtland" or "nauvoo", the first hit is the subtopic "plural marriage in kirtland and nauvoo". The main topic of plural marriage essay also has all three links I provided below in various sections (as in to see more about this time period, click on....) So the list on the side of the main page that has 8-10 of the new essays just has the general plural marriage topic link, but if one clicks on that, one will be led to the other subtopics. I don't know if they have included every topic they have upgraded or just the ones that were publicized on the main page of gospel topics for awhile. They do intend to upgrade them all eventually according to Elder Snow. I don't see it as trying to hide plural marriage when they have that topic front and center on this list. It makes sense to me to not show all the subtopics that posted with it given that the links are easily found in the article linked to. They have simplified the look of the site so adding multiple links when one covers them all makes for an unnecessary cluttered look. Plus it makes sense that they want people to read the total context as well as the individual context of plural marriage...iow, they want people to read more, not less. The exact articles on the time period can be found easily enough using the default search engine. How is that hiding anything? Edited April 15, 2015 by calmoriah
omni Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Here's the link for the essays listed on lds.org:https://www.lds.org/topics?lang=engIs it a glitch in my system, or is the essay on "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo" missing from the list? I also don't see the essay on "The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage". I'll keep looking, but I sent someone this link today and I just want to make sure I sent them the correct link!Watch Brother Jake's Gospel Topics video linked to in another thread. I think you'll find your answer at the end in the bonus "polygamy puzzle" section.
Popular Post Calm Posted April 15, 2015 Popular Post Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) This is the title of the main topic and it is on the main page of gospel topics: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Please explain to me how this is hiding anything about Joseph Smith? Is wikipedia hiding stuff because it has subtopics titles later in the discussion or has embedded links to further more detailed discussions rather than including everything in the top summary section? Edited April 15, 2015 by calmoriah 5
ALarson Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 If you know what to search for, you can find it. But someone just going to look at or for the new church essays, will not find the essay on Joseph Smith's polygamy in the list. Is that correct?
Calm Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I am not finding anything extraordinary about it and don't understand why it is that hard to understand. What main page cites everything that is listed? It is more like a table of contents of chapters rather than the extensive index at the back of book. 4
Calm Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 If you know what to search for, you can find it. But someone just going to look at or for the new church essays, will not find the essay on Joseph Smith's polygamy in the list. Is that correct? This is what is on the main page of the Gospel Topics page: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints No, it does not have in bold bright letters "this is where to look if you are interested in Joseph Smith's plural marriages". I would have thought that would have gone without saying. If you do a search on "joseph smith" and "plural marriage", the Kirtland/Nauvoo article is the third hit, after a generic "marriage" and "testimony of Joseph Smith". Again, how is this going to stop someone from finding the page on JS's plural marriages? Even if one goes just to the first article and refuses for some reason to click on "if you would like to learn more" option, one would still read The revelation on marriage stated general principles; it did not explain how to implement plural marriage in all its particulars. In Nauvoo, Joseph Smith married additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice was introduced carefully and incrementally, and participants vowed to keep their participation confidential, anticipating a time when husbands and wives could acknowledge one another publicly. 2
JulieM Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Thanks calmoriah. But why not just include these polygamy essays in the list with the other essays? Do you know what I mean? Why leave them off the main list? Just seems odd to me and maybe they'll add them. And, I still haven't been able to find the videos for how to use the essays either. I know you said they're no longer on lds.org and I wonder why they'd remove them? It's just frustrating and I guess I'm venting a bit. Sorry, because you've been awesome.
ALarson Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 Like JulieM posted, why not just include these polygamy essays BY TITLE like the others are all listed? Or are all the other essays not listed by title individually on the "Gospel Topics" page of lds.org? Maybe I missed something. And I appreciate your help too, calmoriah. I know you're just answering our questions the best you can! Thank you and I'll send the more specific links to my friend. 1
Calm Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 They upgraded the website, they removed a bunch of stuff...I assume because feedback said too much stuff was confusing (I participated in surveys in the past on how to change lds.org to make it move user friendly...I have not always approved of the changes but can see the reasoning behind them...they are trying to put more and more info on it while making it simpler and simpler). In my window, having the titles limited to nine chosen advertised topics fits the window perfectly with no scrolling down. I can just see a graphic artist thinking "if we keep to this number we can keep the font and format consistent with the rest of lds.org and still give an all at once look to the 'hot topics' box...and besides, surely everyone who is interested in plural marriage of any sort will be able to figure out that one needs to click on the plural marriage topic and if they do that, they will quickly see additional links to more detailed articles are available". I still don't get the big deal of using "plural marriage in the Church" instead of "Joseph Smith and others' plural marriages" for a title when a search for "joseph smith" and "plural marriage" comes up just fine in the search engine with a specific article and is besides right there in the general article itself.
Calm Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) There appears to be a hot topic box on the side. If you scroll down, you get topic boxes that are not all included on the hot list. These change over time as they feature different things. These are not all the topics in the Gospel topic section, there are hundreds of others, a few which last I checked were missing links in the index and only come up in direct searches. Since there was nothing controversial about these subjects, I assume this is just a glitch that hasn't been noticed yet or they are waiting for a complete upgrade to redo all the links...the intent stated by Elder Snow in the videos (which were up for at least a year or so, so hardly hiding them) was to redo all the articles to help with personal study. You can see where they have added stuff to a number of articles besides the ones that were specifically written to address current 'hot' topics and some where nothing has been done...at least last time I looked a month or two ago. Edited April 16, 2015 by calmoriah
JulieM Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) They upgraded the website, they removed a bunch of stuff...I assume because feedback said too much stuff was confusing (I participated in surveys in the past on how to change lds.org to make it move user friendly...I have not always approved of the changes but can see the reasoning behind them...they are trying to put more and more info on it while making it simpler and simpler).In my window, having the titles limited to nine chosen advertised topics fits the window perfectly with no scrolling down. I can just see a graphic artist thinking "if we keep to this number we can keep the font and format consistent with the rest of lds.org and still give an all at once look to the 'hot topics' box...and besides, surely everyone who is interested in plural marriage of any sort will be able to figure out that one needs to click on the plural marriage topic and if they do that, they will quickly see additional links to more detailed articles are available".I still don't get the big deal of using "plural marriage in the Church" instead of "Joseph Smith and others' plural marriages" for a title when a search for "joseph smith" and "plural marriage" comes up just fine in the search engine with a specific article and is besides right there in the general article itself.Why not just do what is the simplest and easiest way to help members find these essays? List them by their title like they did the other essays. If they were trying to make this part of their website less confusing, that just seems like the obvious way to do it. Ok, I've said my peace (or is it piece?) and vented enough. Edited April 16, 2015 by JulieM
Calm Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Not a video but much of the same coverage: https://www.lds.org/church/news/print/new-gospel-topics-page-encourages-personal-and-family-study?lang=eng
JulieM Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Not a video but much of the same coverage: https://www.lds.org/church/news/print/new-gospel-topics-page-encourages-personal-and-family-study?lang=engThanks calmoriah. You are very patient and thoughtful for putting up with us I'll watch this.
Calm Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Why not just do what is the simplest and easiest way to help members find these essays? List them by their title like they did the other essays. If they were trying to make this part of their website less confusing, that just seems like the obvious way to do it. Ok, I've said my peace and vented enough. Please tell me what is not simple and easy about having the summary topic on the main page and additional links for detailed information on different pages. This is how the wikipedia works. Can wikipedia ever be wrong? Maybe the problem is that I don't see them as separate essays, but as more or less in the same way as one article in an encyclopedia with subtopics. I used encyclopedias a lot when I was young. I was annoyed that my parents gave ours away, I used to sit for hours looking at the transparencies on frog and human anatomy. My husband couldn't understand why I wanted it given everything is online now and more up todate. One of my career choices for many years was librarian and I even worked in a library for a couple of years. Going general, then specific is how I have done all my reseach over the years. It just seems logical and practical to me to set it up this way if they have multiple sections dealing with the same topic, in this case Plural Marriage. Edited April 16, 2015 by calmoriah 2
Calm Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 BTW, you can give feedback...go to the article and down at the bottom it asks "was this helpful"...I assume they have a comment area as they used to, you can add there that it would be more helpful to list the article on the main page if you think it is that needed.
Kenngo1969 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I don't wish to offend anyone, but I don't see how the potential accusation that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is soft-peddling (my term) the essay/entry in question should get much traction. As this thread shows, how it should be displayed is a debatable question, but it's not as if this is a third-party Web site with third-party material that the Church wants to hide, and so has sent white-shirted, black suited, tie-wearing enforcers in black, wing-tipped shoes (for good measure, they probably have little flashy memory-eraser thingies, too ) from the Strengthening Church Members Committee to the home of that third party for, uhhh, persuasion purposes. While I would hope that the Church of Jesus Christ would be sensitive to the feedback of those who believe the topic display could be improved (and I believe it will), the fact of the matter is, the Church produced this content. No one held a gun to anyone else's head to force that to happen: ultimately, it's the Church's decision what to do with it. And in a way, this this thread is proof, perhaps, that the Church is "danged if it does, and danged if it don't." If someone says, "Well, the Church produced this content, so why produce it if they were trying to hide it?" Murphy's Law holds that someone else will say, "Yeah, but they obviously don't want it out there, or else they wouldn't make it so hard to find." I love it when someone says, "The Church is trying to hide this," then someone else posts a link to an Ensign article. (Others have been around much longer, but even I've been around long enough to see that's happen from time to time on the Board. Yep; the Church is so interested in hiding this that it put it in one of its flagship publications, where it would be virtually guaranteed that no one will ever see it! )
bluebell Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Joseph Smith plural marriage is obviously a sub topic of plural marriage in the church. Are there other obvious subtopics that have their own link on that page? 2
ALarson Posted April 16, 2015 Author Posted April 16, 2015 Joseph Smith plural marriage is obviously a sub topic of plural marriage in the church.Are there other obvious subtopics that have their own link on that page?I guess that's the question here. I think all of the other essays are listed by title on the lds.org page "Gospel Topics". But maybe they'd be difficult to put within a sub topic? I just think that if a member got to that page and then could actually see all of the titles of the different essays (ie: "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo" and "The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage") more would click on them and more would read them. Like calmoriah stated, they have done a few overhauls or changes on the page and this might be changed. I just sent the link calmoriah gave me to my friend and it's the one that goes directly to the essay he wanted to read. I think people will find them if they want to read them and that members are gradually becoming aware of them
HappyJackWagon Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) It seems clear the church doesn't want people stumbling across the plural marriage essays. We need to protect the delicate sensibilities and faith of members. "Only error fears freedom of expression… Neither fear of consequence nor any kind of coercion should ever be used to secure uniformity of thought in the church. …we should also be unafraid to dissent - if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Hugh B. Brown (1988) The Abundant Life: The Memoirs of Hugh B. Brown, ed. Edwin B. Firmage (Salt Lake City: Signature Books). Pp. 137-139 "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." J Rueben Clark Quinn, D. M. (1983). J. Reuben Clark: The Church Years. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press. p. 24 Edited April 16, 2015 by HappyJackWagon
CCRW Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I believe the Church may have had "President Newsroom" publish this way back in answer to this question: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-provides-context-gospel-topics-pages
bluebell Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 It seems clear the church doesn't want people stumbling across the plural marriage essays. We need to protect the delicate sensibilities and faith of members. I'm not sure how anyone can say that, given as how 'plural marriage in the LDS church' is right there on the Gospel Topics page. 1
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