Kids Need Church

[Buckeye]

NBC News has an interesting piece today about the importance churches play in providing mentors and advancing the lives of disadvantaged youth: http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/in-plain-sight/class-america-want-get-ahead-try-church-n325796 . Yes, you heard me right. NBC is reporting that church is good for kids. Try not to let your heads explode.

 

Anyway, while this post could be appropriate for the "news" discussion group, I thought I would post it here to discuss how the LDS church succeeds in supporting disadvantaged youth, and possibly how it could improve. I'll list a few ways I've seen us succeed:

1. My ward has an even balance of suburbs and inner city. Our building is in the center of a small run-down city. Sometimes there are complaints from families like mine who have to drive considerable distance to the chapel several times a week. While it's a sacrifice, I appreciate that we're located where its most convenient for the disadvantaged kids.
2. Several years ago my current ward was really struggling, as were several others in the stake. One ward was doing great. The stake presidency decided to blow it up and move the strength into the weaker units. It meant more callings and work for families similar to mine, but has been a Godsend to these units. This would not be possible if our church did not have a strong policy that members attend where they are assigned. I'm grateful for that.
3. As a kid my family moved often. My parents' first consideration in deciding where to live was the strength of the youth program. But in some places there wasn't a choice - there was only one unit and it was struggling. Looking back, I can see that some of the strongest growth that took place in my siblings and me occurred when we were stretched by being placed in a tough wards and asked to be more than kids. As a senior in HS, I served as the 1st Assistant to the Bishop, Seminary President, a senior home teacher companion, 2nd counselor in the SS president (my mom really questioned that one), and for a few weeks as a nursery leader.
4. The church puts a ton (really) or resources into high education. While not everyone can get into BYU-Provo, pretty much any determined kid can get into a church school somewhere and receive a very good education at a reasonable price.
5. Missions come at a prime time in youth's lives when they need mentors and direction for what they want to do with themselves. Here again, the church puts tons of resources into the program.
6. The church is the largest supporter of BSA. I know others don't particularly like the outdoors, but I and my sons have loved the experience.

 

P.S. I respectfully ask that all comments regarding female ordination or gay marriage wait until page 3. Thanks!

[stemelbow]

Thanks. I will say when I struggle most the thing that keeps me going and heavily involved in the Church is the benefit, or potential benefit, it brings to my kids.

[Buckeye]

Thanks. I will say when I struggle most the thing that keeps me going and heavily involved in the Church is the benefit, or potential benefit, it brings to my kids.

 

From what I've read in the Book of Moses, it seems that God may feel the same way.

[Brian 2.0]

A more apt title would be "Kids need mentors and a close community".  Church just happens to be a great source of those things, one of the best, but there are certainly other sources to get those.

 

As someone who no longer attends and has young kids, I want those things for my kids, but I don't want the doctrine, worldview, and epistemology taught to them that comes along with it.  It's a tough call.

 

A now-atheist friends of mine in the same boat found a Unitarian Universalist church that he takes his family to now that they really like.  I'm sure if I put more effort into attending one of them I could get into it, but other churches just feel so foreign to me every time I try.  

[Buckeye]

A more apt title would be "Kids need mentors and a close community".  Church just happens to be a great source of those things, one of the best, but there are certainly other sources to get those.

 

As someone who no longer attends and has young kids, I want those things for my kids, but I don't want the doctrine, worldview, and epistemology taught to them that comes along with it.  It's a tough call.

 

A now-atheist friends of mine in the same boat found a Unitarian Universalist church that he takes his family to now that they really like.  I'm sure if I put more effort into attending one of them I could get into it, but other churches just feel so foreign to me every time I try.  

 

There certainly are other sources. I find that most all non-religious sources are hampered by a lack of continual contact. Boys clubs, YMCA, sports, etc. are usually not life-long attachments.

 

As I said in my OP, if there are any things you think can improve the church's offerings, please tell. Doctrines take a long while to change. Worldviews and epistemologies maybe less so (though those carry vary between congregations).

[Mormonmaniac]

Kids need church. But even more than that, kids need a mom and a dad in a loving relationship with each other. The destruction of all that is and can be called good comes down to the degradation of the husband and wife relationship.

[Buckeye]

Kids need church. But even more than that, kids need a mom and a dad in a loving relationship with each other. The destruction of all that is and can be called good comes down to the degradation of the husband and wife relationship.

 

Page 3 !!!!!!

[Mormonmaniac]

Hopefully it never gets to page 3!

I just suppose that kids need the best chance at life. Its a multi effort from all angles but the mom and dad relationship is the most important.

[Storm Rider]

This is a great topic; thank you for posting it.  It does surprise me that NBC is the fount of this information; a pleasant one.  It would seem to me that parents have known that church has been beneficial for children for generations; recent generations have tended to disbelieve anything good can come from history or those who have gone before.  Others have tended to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water; doctrine is "true" therefore I will not allow my children to attend thus keeping them in a more pure state of consciousness and without all the spiritual garbage that comes with going to church.  It takes all kinds I guess.

 

Here is what I believe:  Church does far more good for individuals, children, and families than any harm. Stupid people will always do stupid things regardless of the organization or group with whom they attach themselves.  The normal Joe & Jane learn as they live and strive to do better, be better, and continue to reflect and refine their approach to life and to God. 

 

Some will always, always, reject anything that demands sacrifice or the setting aside of their own ego.  That is the natural, carnal state of all humanity; it is me, myself, and I before all things.  Their happiness is directly correlated to their ability to set that aside in the service of others.

[The Nehor]

Hurry up and get this to page 3. I have a gif about a married lesbian bishop I want to post. C'mon people.

[Brian 2.0]

There certainly are other sources. I find that most all non-religious sources are hampered by a lack of continual contact. Boys clubs, YMCA, sports, etc. are usually not life-long attachments.

 

As I said in my OP, if there are any things you think can improve the church's offerings, please tell. Doctrines take a long while to change. Worldviews and epistemologies maybe less so (though those carry vary between congregations).

 

There's the rub.  Certain changes that would align more to my liking (and some other "progressive/liberal" Mormons) would actually have a negative effect on some of the positive aspects that are currently in it.  There's a much larger sense of community and a "we're in this together" sensation when the believers feel they are part of "the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth".  

 

Exclusive priesthood.  God's authorized Prophets.   This is where the power of Mormonism lies.  It's the engine that drives intense commitment and sacrifice.   Strict dogma and fundamentalism can alienate people from the group, but it also cements the inside group strongly together.  Easing up on the former will decrease the latter.

 

The more you tone down "us vs. them" or "the church vs. the world" the more you will weaken the bond between "us." 

[changed]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17136871/American-Religious-Identification-Survey-ARIS-2008-Summary-Report

 

read page 13:

 

"Mormons... seem best able to transmit their moral teachings to the young."

..."Divorce rates are lowest among Mormons and Jews, traditions known for the emphasis they place on married life and the family."

Mormons also scored highest on their commitment to traditional or normative family values

 

college graduates - Mormons are increasing their numbers, but Jewish win that one

 

 

Secular clubs vs. church -

church

- is family, we call one another brother and sister

- you get to feel the spirit

- you are not judged by how fast you can run, or how many points you can score for the team, it's not about how much $ you make - it's more inclusive

 - there is counseling and help if your family is in trouble, there is relationship help, and an emphasis on family unity

- service activities

- centered on God and our Savior, on forgiveness, love, humility, charity

- covenant organization entered into through baptism

 

secular

- frat club vs. family

- judged by worldly standards, groups formed based on worldly standards - the rich kid club, the poor kid gangs, 

- have to earn your place on the team by how well you perform, or how many points you score

- parties that encourage immoral behavior

- centered on popularity, looks, income, etc.

- centered on pride (whose team is the best), competition, and personal gain (I'm going to go to the other club down the street if you don't cater to my needs)

- not a covenant organization,

- hazing rituals to get in...

Edited March 21, 2015 by changed

[churchistrue]

Good article.  Thanks for the link.

[Uncle Dale]

NBC News has an interesting piece today about the importance churches play in providing mentors and advancing the lives of disadvantaged youth: http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/in-plain-sight/class-america-want-get-ahead-try-church-n325796 . Yes, you heard me right. NBC is reporting that church is good for kids. Try not to let your heads explode....

 

Doesn't surprise me very much.

 

However, if I were to ask any one of my several neighbors

whether it would be better to let kids play games on Fridays,

or to be taken to the nearest mosque, for fellowship, etc.,

I'm fairly sure they'd opt for the games plan.

 

If I changed that slightly, to free transport to the nearest

synagogue, on Saturdays, I'm fairly sure that well over

half of them would opt for the games idea.

 

Lastly, if I changed things to a free taxi over and back to

the nearest LDS ward meeting-house on Sunday, I'm

positive that all but one (there is a single LDS here) would

say that games were better.

 

Back a few years ago I read something about a free 2-week

Scientology summer camp for kids -- but that was on the

mainland, and not here in the islands.

 

Scientologists call their organization a "church;" so, I wonder

what the NBC reporters would say to the idea of turning their

own kids over to that fine (?) institution for a few weeks, every

now and then?

 

UD

[Brian 2.0]

 

secular

- frat club vs. family

- judged by worldly standards, groups formed based on worldly standards - the rich kid club, the poor kid gangs, 

- have to earn your place on the team by how well you perform, or how many points you score

- parties that encourage immoral behavior

- centered on popularity, looks, income, etc.

- centered on pride (whose team is the best), competition, and personal gain (I'm going to go to the other club down the street if you don't cater to my needs)

- not a covenant organization,

- hazing rituals to get in...

 

This is exactly my experience with Habitat for Humanity and Water.org

[Brian 2.0]

Secular clubs vs. church -

church

- is family, we call one another brother and sister

- you get to feel the spirit

- you are not judged by how fast you can run, or how many points you can score for the team, it's not about how much $ you make - it's more inclusive

 - there is counseling and help if your family is in trouble, there is relationship help, and an emphasis on family unity

- service activities

- centered on God and our Savior, on forgiveness, love, humility, charity

- covenant organization entered into through baptism

 

secular

- frat club vs. family

- judged by worldly standards, groups formed based on worldly standards - the rich kid club, the poor kid gangs, 

- have to earn your place on the team by how well you perform, or how many points you score

- parties that encourage immoral behavior

- centered on popularity, looks, income, etc.

- centered on pride (whose team is the best), competition, and personal gain (I'm going to go to the other club down the street if you don't cater to my needs)

- not a covenant organization,

- hazing rituals to get in...

 

I just love this comparison.  Was this an honest attempt to be fair at judging church vs secular organizations?  Or in jest?  If a latter, kudos.  

 

You basically picked the Mormon Church as your church sample and the University of Oklahoma SAE Frat as your secular sample.  Just a smidgen of bias going on here I think.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Brian 2.0

[changed]

Habitat for humanity and water.org are adult volunteer organizations (that are in large part supported by religious individuals btw).  This is a thread about child-centered organizations, and the secular organizations for children most often involve sports/music/dance other competitive venues, or they are educational type extracurricular organizations.  While these groups have valuable contributions (I have children, and have participated in a wide variety of them) they do not foster love/humility/acceptance of everyone/emotional support/etc.  It's not a place to feel the spirit, they are purely academic/competitive, or places to make short-term friends. 

[Duncan]

My son LOVES the missionaries, he looks up to them and other members in the Church of course. I am not into Halo or COD or any of that stuff but the elders were and they can talk about it and they also try to teach him the gospel and he just enjoys the missionaries company. One of our fave sisters went home the other day and she's British and he loved her and everything and so I took him to the mission home to see her off and they both appreciated it. The missionaries, for the most part, are just outstanding people and I favour him getting to know them and so I don't know if he gets to see good men otherwise, through his other family. Hopefully he sees good men on my part?? But!!! hahahha

[Uncle Dale]

Habitat for humanity and water.org are adult volunteer organizations (that are in large part supported by religious individuals btw).  This is a thread about child-centered organizations, and the secular organizations for children most often involve sports/music/dance other competitive venues, or they are educational type extracurricular organizations.  While these groups have valuable contributions (I have children, and have participated in a wide variety of them) they do not foster love/humility/acceptance of everyone/emotional support/etc.  It's not a place to feel the spirit, they are purely academic/competitive, or places to make short-term friends. 

 

My thoughts are that the kids' parents themselves need to

be involved (at least to a certain extent).

 

When I was a child a relative used to pick me up and drop

me off at a Catholic catechism class. My parents had no

connection with the priest or with that congregation, and the

whole experience seemed like mental torture to me.

 

My father was involved in the Idaho Falls Idaho chapter of

the John Birch Society, and at least on the occasions when

they had picnics in the park, etc., he would accompany me

to those gatherings. That felt much better than catechism

class (all by myself).

 

Then I became a teenager, and didn't want my parents

anywhere near me when I participated in sports, went to

parties, and other such activities.

 

But, an eight-year-old, accompanied by his/her parents, might

be the "target audience" that the original article addresses.

 

UD

[cinepro]

[The Nehor]

When my mom was Primary President she shifted the goal from being primarily teaching the kids the gospel to making sure kids did not hate Primary. Her theory was that in some families a major determinant of activity was whether the children were enthusiastic about Primary or hated it.

I had two bad Primary teachers. One scared me out of repenting for years and I stopped praying because he tried to use scare tactics to teach the gospel.

The other was a stupid Coveyite who would mix Coveyism and his own version of the prosperity gospel with a sprinkling of the actual LDS faith and feed it to us. I remember one memorable class where he told us how to start a business growing lawns and how if we did it right we could be millionaires before we went on our missions. It was only years later that I realized how flawed his idiotic plan was and how he was constantly trying to be nice to me as a kind of suck up to my dad who was financially successful while this guy was perpetually broke and trying some crazy new scheme so the Lord could bless him with money. His wife also subbed once and taught us the true gospel as laid forth in the holy scripture "Embraced by the Light".