Pahoran Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I am sure there is more to it than I know. But, given the circumstances, Quinn has earned my trust on this specific matter more than church leadership. And in other news, Hitchens admires Trotsky. Regards,Pahoran
Pahoran Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Yes, the Sept 6 timing does lend credibility to his claim that he was ex'd for his writings. Meaning, that when there is no evidence for a conspiracy theory, coincidences of the calendar will do. The fact that Dr Quinn was a sexually active homosexual couldn't possibly have anything to do with his excommunication, could it? bI'm not sure what "crap" you are referring to. But I agree he was on a path toward excommunication for writing things that the Brethren did not want revealed. JHL seems to be referring to some rather poor scholarship, like his attempts to "homogenize" LDS history. But I doubt that that would have led to excommunication. Regards, Pahoran 1
Pahoran Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Dehlin's work helped me during a low time in my life when the church couldn't/wouldn't. Or you were too distrustful to listen? He has followed his heart in trying to help those who he feels have been hurt by church policies. I respect him for that though it saddens me that he lost his faith. I'm sure his faith in his real religion is as strong as ever. While I don't agree with the approach that Kelly took, I see her as a woman of faith. That's interesting. What does it mean? Someone once said, "Everyone should believe something. I believe I'll have another drink." In what does Ms Kelly's faith reside? If you haven't listened to her A Thoughtful Faith podcast interview with Gina Colvin, I recommend it as a great way to understand Kelly rather than the media + social media portrayal of her. Oh, she did a podcast with Gina Colvin? I couldn't be more reassured if she'd done one with Sandra Tanner. The trouble with podcasts is that you have to sit through the whole thing. I read about five times as fast as most people talk, and you can't search a podcast. Is there a transcript anywhere? Regards, Pahoran 2
rockpond Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 Meaning, that when there is no evidence for a conspiracy theory, coincidences of the calendar will do.The fact that Dr Quinn was a sexually active homosexual couldn't possibly have anything to do with his excommunication, could it?JHL seems to be referring to some rather poor scholarship, like his attempts to "homogenize" LDS history.But I doubt that that would have led to excommunication.Regards,PahoranCFR that Quinn was a sexually active homosexual at the time of his excommunication.
rockpond Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 Or you were too distrustful to listen?I'm sure his faith in his real religion is as strong as ever.That's interesting. What does it mean? Someone once said, "Everyone should believe something. I believe I'll have another drink." In what does Ms Kelly's faith reside?Oh, she did a podcast with Gina Colvin? I couldn't be more reassured if she'd done one with Sandra Tanner.The trouble with podcasts is that you have to sit through the whole thing. I read about five times as fast as most people talk, and you can't search a podcast. Is there a transcript anywhere?Regards,PahoranKelly's faith resides in God and in his son Jesus Christ. I'm with you on generally preferring to read but there are good times for podcasts also (driving, running on the treadmill for example).
jwhitlock Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Kelly's faith resides in God and in his son Jesus Christ. Really? What do you base that claim on?
rockpond Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 Really? What do you base that claim on?Listening to her talk about her faith.
why me Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Listening to her talk about her faith.If she had faith she would not have more or less left the church. It is strange that you claim that she has faith in god and his son, and yet, she did not have faith in his church. She challenged his church over female ordination. So, I am skeptical what her faith actually means to her. 1
Coreyb Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 If she had faith she would not have more or less left the church. It is strange that you claim that she has faith in god and his son, and yet, she did not have faith in his church. She challenged his church over female ordination. So, I am skeptical what her faith actually means to her.Surely one could have faith in God and Jesus Christ and not have faith in the church.
JLHPROF Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Surely one could have faith in God and Jesus Christ and not have faith in the church. Yes, but only to a limited degree. Because God and Christ established their Church, appointed its leaders, spoke (mostly) its canon. To not have faith in that Church is to not have full faith in their actions. 2
rockpond Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 If she had faith she would not have more or less left the church. It is strange that you claim that she has faith in god and his son, and yet, she did not have faith in his church. She challenged his church over female ordination. So, I am skeptical what her faith actually means to her.I think she actually does have faith in His church. She just believes that they could be wrong or haven't yet received further light on female ordination.
Pahoran Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I think she actually does have faith in His church. She just believes that they could be wrong or haven't yet received further light on female ordination. And, like most (all) apostate wannabe "reformers," she simply can't consider the possibility that they could be right, and she could be wrong. Regards, Pahoran 1
JLHPROF Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I think she actually does have faith in His church. She just believes that they could be wrong or haven't yet received further light on female ordination. I think she views female ordination as an administrative decision/function. In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) she is not seeking revelation to extend Godly authority to women, but seeking the Church to give women administrative power. As if the leaders of the Church are intentionally withholding a piece of the pie, not as if God has yet to speak.
rockpond Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 And, like most (all) apostate wannabe "reformers," she simply can't consider the possibility that they could be right, and she could be wrong.Regards,PahoranI imagine she's given it the same consideration that you've given to the thought that you might be wrong.
Pahoran Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 CFR that Quinn was a sexually active homosexual at the time of his excommunication. It's not controversial at all. Quinn's homosexuality was well known among his BYU colleagues for some time. Shortly after his excommunication, he gave an interview to "Out" Magazine, in which he described his homosexual feelings as "overwhelming." He'd self-identified as "gay" since at least his mission. I think you'll find that, if you ask your "gay" friends, they'll confidently tell you that homosexuality is pervasive and immutable. Regards, Pahoran
rockpond Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 I think she views female ordination as an administrative decision/function. In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) she is not seeking revelation to extend Godly authority to women, but seeking the Church to give women administrative power. As if the leaders of the Church are intentionally withholding a piece of the pie, not as if God has yet to speak.The OW mission statement says that they sincerely ask our church leaders to take the matter to the Lord in prayer.
Teancum Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) If she had faith she would not have more or less left the church. It is strange that you claim that she has faith in god and his son, and yet, she did not have faith in his church. She challenged his church over female ordination. So, I am skeptical what her faith actually means to her.So only LDS have faith in God and Jesus? What utter nonesense your post is. I know a number of ex LDS who are pursuing other religious traditions who have quite strong faith in Christ. Edited March 15, 2015 by Teancum
Teancum Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Yes, but only to a limited degree. Because God and Christ established their Church, appointed its leaders, spoke (mostly) its canon. To not have faith in that Church is to not have full faith in their actions.Baloney, this is as bad as the EVs who descend here periodically and tell us who are LDS that we have the wrong Jesus.Beware of DOGma.
carbon dioxide Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Kelly's faith resides in God and in his son Jesus Christ. I sure her faith does. But does that really matter? Many will say "Lord Lord" but did the Lord know them or will he say "I knew ye not". If the LDS Church is not true then it will not be a big deal for her. If it is true than she is in big trouble regardless of how much faith she has in God and Jesus Christ. Rebellion is not something the Father and Son get warm fuzzes about. It did not work out well for Satan. Probably will not work out well for her. Edited March 15, 2015 by carbon dioxide 1
Teancum Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) And, like most (all) apostate wannabe "reformers," she simply can't consider the possibility that they could be right, and she could be wrong.Regards,PahoranAnd like most true beleivers you can't consdier the possibility that they (the LDS leaders) could be wrong and others right...about a variety of matters and things. Edited March 15, 2015 by Teancum
JLHPROF Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 The OW mission statement says that they sincerely ask our church leaders to take the matter to the Lord in prayer. But they won't take no for an answer. They just assume that their way is the right way.
JLHPROF Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Baloney, this is as bad as the EVs who descend here periodically and tell us who are LDS that we have the wrong Jesus.Beware of DOGma. Not at all. If God does Action A, and someone says Action A is wrong, they cannot still claim to have faith in God.
carbon dioxide Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) The OW mission statement says that they sincerely ask our church leaders to take the matter to the Lord in prayer.No they don't. Look at this statement "Ordain Women believes women must be ordained in order for our faith to reflect the equity and expansiveness of these teachings." http://ordainwomen.org/mission/ That statement alone tells me that they have already decided the issue. They want a revelation to formalize what they have already decided for themselves. Why should the GA ask God to get an answer for Ordain Women want? The GA should ask God in prayer on matters that are important to them. God house is one of order. If God does want women to be ordained, he will inspire the GA to ask in prayer for themselves. He is not going to go outside proper channels and have some fringe group of women initiate it. The Church would become a house of disorder if individual members started their little groups and demanded a revelation for this or that pet issue they have. Edited March 15, 2015 by carbon dioxide 2
Teancum Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Not at all. If God does Action A, and someone says Action A is wrong, they cannot still claim to have faith in God.Like I said beware of dogma. So sad.
JLHPROF Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Like I said beware of dogma. So sad. Nah, love me some dogma.
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