Sleeper Cell Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 It would be OK with me. But then, I oppose a military draft. It's vestige of my liberal leanings backin my high scho an college days in the early '70s.“Draft beer, not students.”
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I wish y'all would stop portraying Southerners as racist. As an adopted Northerner, I can vouch for the vile, ugly racism I witnessed in the North being as viscous as any I have witnessed living in Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia. In fact the South has worked through many of their issues during the civil rights era that the North has not even admitted to having. I have been told by more than one black friend that they prefer the bigots in the South because they get in your face, and you can avoid them. Not like the ones up North that talk pretty then stab you in the back.When discussing legal aspects of racism the best examples are in the post-reconstruction south. Racism is prevalent everywhere. The most racist people I have ever known were European.
KevinG Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 When discussing legal aspects of racism the best examples are in the post-reconstruction south. Racism is prevalent everywhere. The most racist people I have ever known were European.Right. But I take offense to assuming those those attitudes still reign today. In fact the civil rights movement was cradled here in Atlanta. 1
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Right. But I take offense to assuming those those attitudes still reign today. In fact the civil rights movement was cradled here in Atlanta.Those attitudes do exist all over the South today. It was cradled in Atlanta but it was hardly a popular movement in Atlanta. It was there because racism was rampant there and it needed to be there.most reform groups form where reform is most needed.
KevinG Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Those attitudes do exist all over the South today. It was cradled in Atlanta but it was hardly a popular movement in Atlanta. It was there because racism was rampant there and it needed to be there.most reform groups form where reform is most needed.My first hand witness says those racist attitudes are as prevelant today in the North if not more so. That is my point. Northerners and Westerners pointing fingers at Southerners and calling them racist flies in the face of facts like Idaho and Imdiana are Klan strongholds, while Atlanta is the host of the civil rights museum. But of pointing fingers makes you feel superior... 1
Robert F. Smith Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Which is diagnosing society's treatment of marriage as abusive and euthanizing the victim to make it stop.Brother Crockett may have had in mind something like the Israeli State, which has no government control of marriage. Marriage is entirely in the hands of religion. The ceremony itself is always religious (rabbi, priest, or other cleric presiding), and divorce and child custody, etc., under the supervision of religious courts. If someone wants a non-religious marriage, they must go outside the country to get married, and the State of Israel will recognize it.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I wish y'all would stop portraying Southerners as racist. As an adopted Northerner, I can vouch for the vile, ugly racism I witnessed in the North being as viscous as any I have witnessed living in Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia. .................................................................... An interesting choice of words: viscous: "the state of being thick, sticky, and semifluid in consistency, due to internal friction."
Pahoran Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Here's a thoughtful analysis from a knowledgeable individual with a legal background regarding the concept of religious freedom and refusing service, written in the wake of this week's news conference. It's on the Meridian site, but I got to it by way of Daniel Peterson's blog. I'm going to link to Dan's site to give poor tonie more ammunition in the case she is making against me with the moderating team for allegedly linking to a "for-profit blog". Is she? That seems rather petty, if not downright spiteful. I have to wonder if she'd be so censorious if you were linking to a blogger whose ideology she likes. Regards,Pahoran 1
Bob Crockett Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Would you like to explain why racism continues in the South due to government oppression? That is a radical interpretation of history. I have heard it before but the reasoning was, to put it mildly, asinine.Actually blacks were not kept from most of the things you mentioned through force of law. A white theater or restaurant owner could let black in if they chose to. The school boards decided who went to which school and could in theory have integrated. It was through force of culture. When the federal government stepped in they forced it to stop.Agency and freedom are not the same thing. Agency is a gift of God that neither man nor Devils can restrict. Freedom is a political question of how much freedom should be allowed, what behaviors should be curtailed, and how they should be curtailed and all of this is done in the interests of giving up some freedom to get more freedom.Get out much?On my mission the fire department refused to respond to calls on one side of the tracks. Force of law. Government institutionalized racism. No blacks in the fire department, either. South Chicago. 1
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Get out much?On my mission the fire department refused to respond to calls on one side of the tracks. Force of law. Government institutionalized racism. No blacks in the fire department, either. South Chicago.I did say "most" for a reason. in some areas it had the force of law.I assume the libertarian explanation is that if it was not enshrined in law the white fire department would have gladly responded? Because if so, lolz
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 My first hand witness says those racist attitudes are as prevelant today in the North if not more so. That is my point. Northerners and Westerners pointing fingers at Southerners and calling them racist flies in the face of facts like Idaho and Imdiana are Klan strongholds, while Atlanta is the host of the civil rights museum. But of pointing fingers makes you feel superior...I have travelled quite a bit and I would say the south still has an edge in racism. I live in the south so I am not mocking from afar. I am mocking from within.
Tacenda Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I have travelled quite a bit and I would say the south still has an edge in racism. I live in the south so I am not mocking from afar. I am mocking from within. Question, did you go to a private school growing up? My former neighbor from long ago who is LDS, moved back to her hometown of Alabama and I remember that she told me she went to an all girl private school.
thesometimesaint Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 No place is immune. So while the South the most popular was De Jure discrimination in the North the most popular was Defacto discrimination. Things are getting better overall but it is usually two steps forwards and one step back.
Daniel2 Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 As I said elsewhere, on reflection, I'm leaning towards private (self-employed) wedding photographers or planners are the one exception that I tend to agree with, because a wedding requires attendance and involvement at the actual event itself.Bakeries, dressmakers, and florists would all simply be required to sell the same goods they sell to every other couple, without participating directly in the event.As for refusing to sell birth control... I suppose any pharmacist could refuse to perform any aspect of their job they wish, such as declining to sell any given medication (or a waiter or other service employee that refuses to serve gays, blacks, jews, Christians, or whatever)--but then their employers should be free to fire any employee that declines to perform their job. Employees that refuse to do any aspect of their job would willingly forfeit their right to employment and should not be able to claim they were fired based on discrimination or any minority status.This freedom to fire an employee who declines to do his job would be just as true for the employer of a gay employee that refuses to serve Christian customers, or any other combination of employees refusing to do their jobs.It's not fair that an employer should have to forfeit the business of customers, or be forced to hire and bear the cost of a second employee to cover the refused responsibilities of an employee who declines to fulfill the responsibilities of their job.
LOSTONE Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 To threaten or actually fine a person for not wanting to bake a cake / cookies due to personal religious believes sounds a lot like a dictatorship or communist mentality to me. I will stand in defiance when called to in defense of my religious believes and accept the results of doing so. I answer to God, not man. Whatever man does to me, God can easily undo and fix.
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Question, did you go to a private school growing up? My former neighbor from long ago who is LDS, moved back to her hometown of Alabama and I remember that she told me she went to an all girl private school. No, I went to a public school. It was in a wealthy area so they were nice public schools.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 Is she? That seems rather petty, if not downright spiteful. I have to wonder if she'd be so censorious if you were linking to a blogger whose ideology she likes. Regards, PahoranShe raised an issue about my linking to Dan's blog. I told her to take it up with the moderators. She hasn't said whether she did or not.
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