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The Sensen Papyrus Is The Egyptian Original: An Open, Abstract System Of An Ancient Egyptian

DragonLancer

By DragonLancer
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DragonLancer Rising Star

DragonLancer

Posted
Posted

I am going to try this again.

 

Since my participation in the dialogue in the last thread I was involved in did not go well.

 

I will try to be more respectful and cordial here, in my own new thread.  And I will try yet again to communicate this.  Please help me understand what you don't understand about this if you don't get it.  Please read my latest blog posts very carefully, and please re-read them if necessary.

 

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/my-theory-of-ancient-and-open-system.html

 

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/pictographic-representationalism-in.html

 

Ed Goble

 

 

mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

I am going to try this again.

 

Since my participation in the dialogue in the last thread I was involved in did not go well.

 

I will try to be more respectful and cordial here, in my own new thread.  And I will try yet again to communicate this.  Please help me understand what you don't understand about this if you don't get it.  Please read my latest blog posts very carefully, and please re-read them if necessary.

 

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/my-theory-of-ancient-and-open-system.html

 

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/pictographic-representationalism-in.html

 

Ed Goble

Perhaps the posts are too technical.

 

You seem to assume that we all are experts in the different theories, and from my point of view, you use too much jargon.

mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/two-kinds-of-originals-abrahams.html

 

This is a statement about how there are two originals to the Book of Abraham in different senses.  One was the "original" Joseph Smith had.  The other is the one Abraham wrote.  They are two separate things.

So I presume Joseph received his translation by revelation?

 

How is this different than the catalyst theory?  It seems this is similar to what I believe- there WAS an ancient book, and Joseph "restored" it through revelation.

 

End of story- simple.

2
The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

Perhaps the posts are too technical.

 

You seem to assume that we all are experts in the different theories, and from my point of view, you use too much jargon.

To be fair to you he is talking a load of nonsense.

mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

Yes.  Joseph received all his translation was by revelation.  The assumption you are making is too simple though.  Because the evidence is that something ancient was actually translated in that revelation process.  That is different than pure revelation using something as a catalyst, as if it is just a talisman, that is entirely unrelated.  And that makes Joseph Smith's claims more consistent.  To me, that consistency with what he was claiming is an important thing, but that is something that the catalyst theory and the pure revelation theory are willing to give up.  Its not something that is necessary to give up, and so it ought to be explained.  To me, we ought to take anything we can get that bolsters his claims, and not abandon that type of evidence in hope for overly simple explanations.  A better approach, to me, is to actually explain all the evidence in one great whole, not assume that because there are things that are hard to understand, that they don't demand explanation.

I believe it was a re-revelation, or could have been, and have no need for an actual manuscript. Much of the BOM repeats what is in the Bible verbatim, and we have no golden plates to argue about. To me, this is the same sort of thing.
mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

I actually do like the idea that Joseph was seeing the scroll as "pictures" and simultaneously "translating" the actual ancient manuscript, but for me that IS the "catalyst" theory or a variation it is interesting to show how the symbols "translate".

Brian 2.0 Veteran

Brian 2.0

Posted
Posted

I am going to try this again.

Since my participation in the dialogue in the last thread I was involved in did not go well.

I will try to be more respectful and cordial here, in my own new thread. And I will try yet again to communicate this. Please help me understand what you don't understand about this if you don't get it. Please read my latest blog posts very carefully, and please re-read them if necessary.

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/my-theory-of-ancient-and-open-system.html

http://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/2014/12/pictographic-representationalism-in.html

Ed Goble

Are you saying that someone, anciently, took the Egyptian breathing permit and then created a separate code/legend so that someone with that legend could look at the breathing permit document and "read" the Book of Abraham?

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted (edited)

To be fair to me would be to actually analyze the claims and bring a spirit of open-mindedness to the conversation. You are doing neither. You are doing the same thing my other detractors did. You are yet again assuming that I have nothing to offer to anyone, assuming that I have not done any homework at all, assuming that I have put no thought process whatsoever in what I have written, assuming that I have used no logic in my deductions and in my analysis of the evidence, and putting no effort into it yourself into actually analyzing everything that I have said to actually make an assessment. Since these are the things that you are doing, that by default makes your proclamation false and uninformed. Thanks so much again for bringing the same spirit of the previous thread into this one. I invite you to leave the conversation and not enter it again, because I started this thread for the purpose of talking to people that really matter for the conversation, that are willing to actually gain something here.

I am guessing I am one of only a few who read both of your blog posts in their entirety. That to me fulfills the requirement for open-mindedness. If I am required to agree with your conclusions then what you are looking for is air-headedness.

I have no idea how much time, thought, and effort you put into this. I do not really care if you came up with it in a stream of consciousness in ten minutes as you wrote or devoted your whole life to it. I work with writers and I see this kind of whiny pleading all the time. I do not care if you put your heart and soul into this piece of writing. It is either good or rubbish. You then argue that because I did not recognize the Herculean effort you put into this I cannot comment. So unless someone acknowledges your greatness they cannot have an opinion? I only hope you can find some slavish followers then.

I suspect I agree with your detractors. I invite you to leave this thread because I want to only talk to people that matter in this thread as well and you do not make the cut. Sorry. Bye.

Edited by The Nehor
The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted (edited)

You sir, are no better than any other troll on this. I am not going to allow you to hold the productivity of MY thread hostage. Go start your own thread if you want to bellyache about how stupid you think it is. I don't care what you think of what I've done, because you are not seriously looking at the evidence, and seriously discussing it. I own this thread because I started it. Therefore, I ask you to leave it, because you are not serious about talking seriously about a serious subject. Maybe its not serious to you, but something someday in your own life will be serious to you, and you would wish the same for that, for people to treat it with respect. So maybe for your sake, you ought to think of Golden Rule/Law of the Harvest/Love Thy Neighbor here, even if you think it is stupid. Maybe someday this will be serious to you, when the arguments are strengthened by others that help in the effort when more allies are found. Ultimately, that is the purpose here, to find allies who are researchers that can help in the effort, so it is not just a one-man-band on this thing. Discussing how stupid you think it is does not meet the criteria or purpose for the thread. I already have a number of critics, so to add yet another to the list is not news. So for those to whom it is serious, I invite them to stay. I have reported you because you are not seriously looking at the material, and are a troll, and this thread was created for respectful, "love your neighbor", serious discussion of a serious subject. Yeah, I am guilty of plenty of contention in the past myself, and am as guilty as anyone, but here I am actually trying.

I have counted at least four edits of this post so far so it seems like you cannot decide what to say. I do not wish to respond to an incomplete post so let me know when you are finished and I will respond then.

Edited by The Nehor
DragonLancer Rising Star

DragonLancer

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I have counted at least four edits of this post so far so it seems like you cannot decide what to say. I do not wish to respond to an incomplete post so let me know when you are finished and I will respond then.

 

Why?  I asked you to leave.  I'm not interested in speaking to you.  You are not a productive person to talk to.

Edited by DragonLancer
The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

Still here I see.  What's your point now?  More contention?  I've asked the mods to ban you from this thread to prevent you from further derailment of it.

So I need to act quickly to accomplish what I must before the mods bring the mighty hammer of Justice upon me and I am punished for my naughtiness?

Why are you trying to get me to post more?

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