VideoGameJunkie Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 I know that exaltation is about having eternal increase and infinite posterity and becoming our own Heavenly Fathers and Heavenly Mothers, but I've heard many LDS women claim that they don't just want to be eternal baby makers, that they want much more when it comes to exaltation. So my guess is that the husband and wife work together in forming worlds as one unit and it gets me thinking of how important of a role our Heavenly Mother plays in this world and in our life. I want the women of our church to feel important and that they have great, wonderful eternal blessings to look forward to that isn't just pumping our spirit babies.
JLHPROF Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 I know that exaltation is about having eternal increase and infinite posterity and becoming our own Heavenly Fathers and Heavenly Mothers, but I've heard many LDS women claim that they don't just want to be eternal baby makers, that they want much more when it comes to exaltation. So my guess is that the husband and wife work together in forming worlds as one unit and it gets me thinking of how important of a role our Heavenly Mother plays in this world and in our life. I want the women of our church to feel important and that they have great, wonderful eternal blessings to look forward to that isn't just pumping our spirit babies. I have no references handy, but in my opinion, why should we expect roles there to be so different from roles here.Aren't things on earth created in similitude of those in heaven?I don't believe for a second that women are "eternal baby makers", but then I also believe that there is more to motherhood than having babies here too. I know my mother did more for me than just carrying and giving birth.I think being eternal mothers and eternal fathers, to rule and reign over our posterity and bring up the next generation of potential Gods should be enough exaltation for anyone, no matter what tasks we spend their "days" doing. I mean, for all his titles, doesn't God like being called "Father". Why shouldn't his wife also glory in the title "Mother"?
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 2, 2014 Author Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) I got attacked on the Mormon Women Connect board for saying what you said JLHPROF haha. Apparently they want more to exaltation than just being a mother. I'm fine with just being an eternal father. But I'd love female board members opinions. Edited October 2, 2014 by VideoGameJunkie
mormonnewb Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 I have no references handy, but in my opinion, why should we expect roles there to be so different from roles here.Aren't things on earth created in similitude of those in heaven?I don't believe for a second that women are "eternal baby makers", but then I also believe that there is more to motherhood than having babies here too. I know my mother did more for me than just carrying and giving birth.I think being eternal mothers and eternal fathers, to rule and reign over our posterity and bring up the next generation of potential Gods should be enough exaltation for anyone, no matter what tasks we spend their "days" doing. I mean, for all his titles, doesn't God like being called "Father". Why shouldn't his wife also glory in the title "Mother"?Good question! Why shouldn't Heavenly Mother be able to glory in her title? Is it because we've stripped all of the glory from Her title?Imagine if, on earth, mothers were never to be spoken of, or even to, by their children. Imagine if earthly children never went to their mothers for advice or comfort. Would that be a situation in which women felt glorified?If women in the Church can expect to be treated like we treat Heavenly Mother, why would they want to sign on for an ETERNITY of that? 4
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 2, 2014 Author Posted October 2, 2014 I would love to know more about our Heavenly Mother. I know I love her and will be reunited with her. I'm certain lots of people want to know about our Mother in heaven because I hope everyone loves their earthly mothers too and the relationship that a child and mother have is special.
JLHPROF Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) I would love to know more about our Heavenly Mother. I know I love her and will be reunited with her. I'm certain lots of people want to know about our Mother in heaven because I hope everyone loves their earthly mothers too and the relationship that a child and mother have is special. It's not official Church teaching or doctrine in any way, but you could read the wonderful "Women of Mormondom" by Edward Tullidge (and Eliza R. Snow).That gave me a whole new perspective on some things. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=women%20of%20mormondom&sprefix=women+of+mormondom%2Caps Edited October 2, 2014 by JLHPROF 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 2, 2014 Author Posted October 2, 2014 Thanks JLHPROF, I'll have to check that out!
omni Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I got attacked on the Mormon Women Connect board for saying what you said JLHPROF haha. Apparently they want more to exaltation than just being a mother. I'm fine with just being an eternal father. But I'd love female board members opinions.I'm still stuck on the part where you said you were on the Mormon Women Connect board.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 3, 2014 Author Posted October 3, 2014 Haha i was there to support the board.
teddyaware Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Good question! Why shouldn't Heavenly Mother be able to glory in her title? Is it because we've stripped all of the glory from Her title? Imagine if, on earth, mothers were never to be spoken of, or even to, by their children. Imagine if earthly children never went to their mothers for advice or comfort. Would that be a situation in which women felt glorified? If women in the Church can expect to be treated like we treat Heavenly Mother, why would they want to sign on for an ETERNITY of that? How about because God, who cannot lie, promises both men and women a state of happiness and fullness of joy that has no end. How about because God, who cannot lie, promises both men and women the fullness of all the divine attributes He possesses... 61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment. (Moses 6) If the above is true, and I know it is, LDS women would do well to heed these scriptures (and many others) and not the opinions of those who so easily mock that which is sacred and beautiful. 1
mormonnewb Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 How about because God, who cannot lie, promises both men and women a state of happiness and fullness of joy that has no end. How about because God, who cannot lie, promises both men and women the fullness of all the divine attributes He possesses...61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment. (Moses 6)If the above is true, and I know it is, LDS women would do well to heed these scriptures (and many others) and not the opinions of those who so easily mock that which is sacred and beautiful. You don't really believe that Heavenly Mother's sacredness and beauty is the reason we don't talk about her, do you? Don't we also find the Savior's atonement sacred and beautiful? And aren't we COMMANDED to tell the world about it? We find the Book of Mormon to be sacred and beautiful, but we aren't afraid to speak the name of the book in public. In fact, we have 75,000 young people planted all over the world to hand a copy of it to anybody who even APPEARS interested in having one (and many who don't). In fact, our sacred and beautiful book is planted in THOUSANDS of hotel rooms, where some of the LEAST holy things are happening right now. Be honest. We don't talk about Heavenly Mother because the Protestants will make fun of us and refuse to play Prop 8 games with us if they think we've added a FOURTH entity to the Godhead. And by all means, we can't have that! 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 3, 2014 Author Posted October 3, 2014 To be honest, I have no idea why we don't talk about Heavenly Mother. I imagine she is beyond all beauty imaginable.
teddyaware Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 You don't really believe that Heavenly Mother's sacredness and beauty is the reason we don't talk about her, do you? Don't we also find the Savior's atonement sacred and beautiful? And aren't we COMMANDED to tell the world about it? We find the Book of Mormon to be sacred and beautiful, but we aren't afraid to speak the name of the book in public. In fact, we have 75,000 young people planted all over the world to hand a copy of it to anybody who even APPEARS interested in having one (and many who don't). In fact, our sacred and beautiful book is planted in THOUSANDS of hotel rooms, where some of the LEAST holy things are happening right now. Be honest. We don't talk about Heavenly Mother because the Protestants will make fun of us and refuse to play Prop 8 games with us if they think we've added a FOURTH entity to the Godhead. And by all means, we can't have that! All I can say is that I believe I would soon go insane if my mind was so constantly bound up in such intense, overwrought, joyless negativity. 1
mormonnewb Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 All I can say is that I believe I would soon go insane if my mind was so constantly bound up in such intense, overwrought, joyless negativity. Joyless? I grinned the entire time I wrote the previous post. I even made myself laugh out loud a little when I thought of the "(and many who don't)" parenthetical. And where's the negativity? In the "2015 Curriculum" thread, you were the one praising the Brethren for their "well-crafted" essay with its ambiguous meaning. I'm about to let the cat out of the bag, but here goes: There is no doubt in my mind but that the statement was deliberately and painstakingly crafted so as to appear "agnostic," as you call it. The Saviour forewarned His disciples thusly "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." The statement amply demonstrates the present leaders of the Lord's Church take the Lord's sage counsel to heart. All involved did an excellent job, speaking nothing but diamond truth from start to finish. In this thread, I am simply agreeing with you. The Church will "massage" its message when it believes that such ambiguity benefits the Church. How does saying the same thing that you are saying (but for more interestingly) make me intense, overwrought and negative, but makes you a saint?
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 3, 2014 Author Posted October 3, 2014 I know if I am to be a king, I'll need a queen. If I am to be a god, I need a goddess by my side. And I'm certain we would work together on everything.
teddyaware Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Joyless? I grinned the entire time I wrote the previous post. I even made myself laugh out loud a little when I thought of the "(and many who don't)" parenthetical. And where's the negativity? In the "2015 Curriculum" thread, you were the one praising the Brethren for their "well-crafted" essay with its ambiguous meaning. In this thread, I am simply agreeing with you. The Church will "massage" its message when it believes that such ambiguity benefits the Church. How does saying the same thing that you are saying (but for more interestingly) make me intense, overwrought and negative, but makes you a saint?There's a difference between the joy of the Gospel and the joy of the fallen world. The one rejoices in the pure and edifying things of God; while the other gets a big kick out of lambasting and belittling the pure and edifying things of God. In its most extreme form, one would see the joy of the fallen world as a bunch of bloodthirsty murderers having a good old time laughing hysterically as they taunt, mock, disrespect and belittle the Holy One of Israel as He hangs in agony on the cross. How's that for intensity?Edited to add. The Church statement is only ambiguous to the spiritually immature who don't have eyes to see -- kind of like the Lord teaching the spiritually unprepared in parables. Speaking of the spiritually immature, the Saviour said:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (Matthew 13) Edited October 3, 2014 by teddyaware 1
djones Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Hmm, this got me thinking. Maybe that's how polygamy gets sold in the next life as not such a bad thing. Choice A) Be pregnant for the rest of all eternity. Choice B) Let your husband have a million other wives to share the burden. LOL. 4
Darren10 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Good question! Why shouldn't Heavenly Mother be able to glory in her title? Is it because we've stripped all of the glory from Her title?Imagine if, on earth, mothers were never to be spoken of, or even to, by their children. Imagine if earthly children never went to their mothers for advice or comfort. Would that be a situation in which women felt glorified?If women in the Church can expect to be treated like we treat Heavenly Mother, why would they want to sign on for an ETERNITY of that?Who exactly took away from what? I do not recall Heavenly Mother doctrines restored and them taken away. Heavenly Mother is Heavenly Father's equal. If She wills to be prayed to. It'll be done. If She wills for Her Name to be pronounced equal to that of the father's, it'll be done. It's telling to me that these things are not done. Could it be that such is Her will? Why imply sexism? 1
Darren10 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Right now I'm typing here and to convey this message while my wife is cleaning the house a bit. Ahhhh, a glimps into heaven. 1
Brian 2.0 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Who exactly took away from what? I do not recall Heavenly Mother doctrines restored and them taken away. Heavenly Mother is Heavenly Father's equal. If She wills to be prayed to. It'll be done. If She wills for Her Name to be pronounced equal to that of the father's, it'll be done. It's telling to me that these things are not done. Could it be that such is Her will? Why imply sexism?A decent point. Probably the best explanation for the silence on the matter. The rationale of it being Heavenly Father's will because he doesn't want her name used in vain, etc still kinda puts the power and decision into HF hands, like he's protecting the fragile woman. Much cooler to frame it that it's HER decision.Who's to say that in other worlds from other Gods the roles aren't reversed and Heavenly Mother is the one being prayed to? Maybe even sent her first born DAUGHTER down to be the Savior? Why not? Maybe even our own Heavenly Parents switch off with each new world. I know me and my wife trade off nights putting the little kids down to bed. Maybe Heavenly Mother said, "Please no. Let them pray to you honey, don't even tell this set my name in mortality... mama needs to take a bath. I'll see them soon enough." Edited October 3, 2014 by Brian 2.0
Darren10 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 A decent point. Probably the best explanation for the silence on the matter. The rationale of it being Heavenly Father's will because he doesn't want her name used in vain, etc still kinda puts the power and decision into HF hands, like he's protecting the fragile woman. Much cooler to frame it that it's HER decision.Who's to say that in other worlds from other Gods the roles aren't reversed and Heavenly Mother is the one being prayed to? Maybe even sent her first born DAUGHTER down to be the Savior? Why not? Maybe even our own Heavenly Parents switch off with each new world. I know me and my wife trade off nights putting the little kids down to bed. Maybe Heavenly Mother said, "Please no. Let them pray to you honey, don't even tell this set my name in mortality... mama needs to take a bath. I'll see them soon enough."So far as I know, the doctrines we do have regarding God is that He created worlds without number and all for His glory. I view the worlds we do not know about as opperating on the same "process" as we do. They may have a higher knowledge than we as this world, from my understanding, is the most wicked of them all. The inhabitants of all worlds pray to the Father and do so through their Savior whom I believe is Jesus Christ, the Savior of *all* inhabitants of all worlds. I believe this is how Heavenly Mother is also exalted and is perfectly content with that.
Buckeye Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Interesting. We're on the second page of comments for a thread entitled "What Is The Female Role In Exaltation?" and so far it's just men talking at each other. To answer the OP, according to D/C 132 and the temple liturgy established by BY (which, despite changes in tone, remains substantively the same today) only men are exalted. Women are necessary to men's exaltation because men cannot create children without them. But they are not themselves exalted. Women receive a fullness of joy according to the purpose of their creation, which again is to create and nurture children. That said, the current trend in the church is to strongly emphasize that men and women are equal and play down the dissonance between equality and our reality in which we have a decent understanding of men's eternal role (Father), but next to nothing about women's eternal role (Mother). FWIW, I find the best course forward is to focus on Christ, who supposedly is the role model for all of us regardless of gender.
Traela Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I suppose I think of Heavenly Mother as sort the ultimate homeschool mom, who is actually good at the job (unlike me).Heavenly Mother: Well, it looks like you kids understand nuclear fusion. Shall we go build a star?Kids: Yay!!! 1
Buckeye Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I suppose I think of Heavenly Mother as sort the ultimate homeschool mom, who is actually good at the job (unlike me).Heavenly Mother: Well, it looks like you kids understand nuclear fusion. Shall we go build a star?Kids: Yay!!! That would be pretty awesome. At the moment, I would be happy with a Heavenly Mother who just let me talk to her.
Nofear Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I'm still stuck on the part where you said you were on the Mormon Women Connect board. For the record, he wasn't "attacked". He had wrote, "I didn't realize that not all sisters of the church may have such a positive view as being eternal mothers." Some sisters openly challenged that statement as factually false and misleading but did so, in my opinion, in a very nice way (both before and after his comment). I personally would have been much more straight forward, but not my and never will be my job. Anyway, cross-posting forums is technically against the rules and so this train of thought probably ought perish.
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