Towards A Better Understanding Of Same Sex Attraction And Sin

[rockpond]

I have noticed that with a lot of gay men that they change their voices and appearances as much as possible to be feminine. Why is that? If they are supposed to be attracted to what women normally find attractive- deep pleasant masculine voices, masculine features, why do so many gay guys find feminine guys attractive?

None of the gay men that I know personally have changed their voice or appearance to be more feminine. And none of them seem to be attracted to feminine guys. While I am sure that there are some who fit your description, the are many who don't. Gay people are as varied as straight people in appearances and desires.

[rockpond]

Sexual preference/sexual orientation can change. I have two family members who changed their sexual orientation because of the events in their lives.

The official church position is that while change may be possible for some, it is not necessarily something that everyone will be able to do in this life despite the exercise of faith and reliance on the atonement. (That's from Elder Holland in a resource link at the bottom of the MormonsandGays home page.)

[Daniel2]

We don't know the causes of homosexuality. Studies of identical twines show no genetic component, and our sexual preference is established when we're 3-5 years old.

Interesting how different people interpret data differently.

The research about identical twins that I read suggests that there IS a genetic predisposition towards sexual orientation due to increased manifestations of homosexual orientations between twins. The differences are understood to be caused by divergent biological triggers that also occur during gestation, and a combination of TWO genes (in other words, there is no single 'gay gene').

For example, this twin study shows all gay men share genetics signatures on x chromosome xq28, which needs to be triggered by uterine environmental factors:

Being homosexual is only partly due to gay gene, research finds

DNA double helix: the study found that gay men shared genetic signatures on part of the X chromosome - Xq28

By Sarah Knapton, Science Correspondent

11:59PM GMT 13 Feb 2014

Study finds that while gay men share similar genetic make-up, it only accounts for 40 per cent of chance of a man being homosexual

Homosexuality is only partly genetic with sexuality mostly based on environmental and social factors, scientists believe.

A study found that, while gay men shared similar genetic make-up, it only accounted for 40 per cent of the chance of a man being homosexual.

But scientists say it could still be possible to develop a test to find out if a baby was more likely to be gay.

In the most comprehensive study of its kind, Dr Michael Bailey, of Northwestern University, has been studying 400 sets of twins to determine if some men are genetically predisposed to being gay.

The study found that gay men shared genetic signatures on part of the X chromosome - Xq28.

Dr Bailey said: “Sexual orientation has nothing to do with choice. Our findings suggest there may be genes at play – we found evidence for two sets that affect whether a man is gay or straight.

“But it is not completely determinative; there are certainly other environmental factors involved. “The study shows that there are genes involved in male sexual orientation.

“Although this could one day lead to a pre-natal test for male sexual orientation, it would not be very accurate, as there are other factors that can influence the outcome.”

Dr Alan Sanders, associate Professor of Psychiatry at Northwestern University, who led the study said that it was it was an 'oversimplification’ to suggest there was a 'gay gene.’

“We don’t think genetics is the whole story. It’s not. We have a gene that contributes to homosexuality but you could say it is linked to heterosexuality. It is the variation.”

The study builds on work by Dr Dean Hamer from the US National Cancer Institute in 1993 who also found an area of the x chromosome that he believed was linked to male sexual orientation.

Last year Canadian scientists found that the more older male siblings a man has, the greater change he will be gay.

They believe that the immune response produced by a pregnant mother increases with each son, increasing the odds of producing more feminine traits in the developing brain of the foetus.

Each older brother raised the odds that a man was homosexual by one third.

Researchers at the University of California believe that homosexuality can be explained by the presence of epi-marks — temporary switches that control how our genes are expressed during gestation and after birth.

Daryl Bem, a social psychologist at Cornell University, has suggested that the influence of biological factors on sexual orientation may be mediated by experiences in childhood. A child’s temperament predisposes the child to prefer certain activities over others.

Interestingly no similar genes have been discovered which influence female homosexuality.

“No-body has found something like this in women,” he added.

Dr Bailey said environmental factors were likely to have the biggest impact on homosexuality.

He added: “Don’t confuse “environmental” with “socially acquired.” Environment means anything that is not in our DNA at birth, and that includes a lot of stuff that is not social.”

Richard Lane, of Stonewall, said that while studies into the origins of homosexuality have yet to produce firm evidence, they do to point to a biological root.

He said: 'The thing that’s consistent across all of them is that they all point to sexual orientation being something fundamental to a person rather than the lifestyle choice some opponents of equality repeatedly suggest.’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10637532/Being-homosexual-is-only-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html

Conservatives often report these studies by saying, "Twin studies show there IS no 'gay gene'!"

While technically correct, such headlines and usually their subsequent reports in conservative circles ignore the genetic components that HAVE been found to be related to sexual orientation, who's manifestation depends on other uterine triggers.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Daniel2

[JLHPROF]

This is off-topic, but are you saying that the LDS church will alter the ordinances in a way that God does not approve of?  Or will they be changes by some off-shoot of the current church?

 

I couldn't tell you exactly what will happen.  I will let each person determine what Isaiah meant when he prophesied that in the last days the people would change the ordinances resulting in a breaking of the everlasting covenant.

As for who will make the change - well it would have to be someone who had the ordinances and was under the covenant to begin with.  Can't change what you don't practice and can't break a covenant you're not under.

 

Beyond that (who, what, when etc) we can only speculate.  But the prophecy is pretty straightforward about it happening.

[JLHPROF]

Hasn't ALL of this already happened?

 

Stopping the practice of polygamy.

Extending the priesthood to blacks.

The 1990 temple ceremony changes.

 

You haven't gone Denver Snuffer on us, have you?  I assume you believe that all of the above changes were ordained by HF, so why not one more change?  HF seems to be far more flexible than we give Him credit for.

 

Hey, I just quoted one of Isaiah's less confusing prophecies.  All we know for sure is that in the last days (before the 2nd coming) someone will change the ordinances (so presumably they practice them) and break the everlasting covenant (so presumably they are under the covenant).  All else is speculation and I sure don't one to be the one pushing for changes to ordinances.

[thesometimesaint]

Interesting how different people interpret data differently.

The research about identical twins that I read suggests that there IS a genetic predisposition towards sexual orientation due to increased manifestations of homosexual orientations between twins. The differences are understood to be caused by divergent biological triggers that also occur during gestation.

 

The occurrence of homosexuality in identical twins is no more common than the general population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

 

However I do agree that factors other than strictly genetic play important roles.

[Rodeo]

Studies I have read show children raised by gay parents are more likely to struggle with gender sexual identity.

[thesometimesaint]

Studies I have read show children raised by gay parents are more likely to struggle with gender sexual identity.

 

CFR.

[rockpond]

Studies I have read show children raised by gay parents are more likely to struggle with gender sexual identity.

You're just gonna keep throwin stuff out until something sticks, eh?

Kindly support your statement with an actually scientific, peer-reviewed study and cite the part that backs up your conclusion.

[Daniel2]

The occurrence of homosexuality in identical twins is no more common than the general population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

However I do agree that factors other than strictly genetic play important roles.

Reading through the link you provided on Wikipedia agrees with the article I subsequently edited into the end of my previous post.

When you say "strictly genetic," it sounds as though you DO agree there is a genetic component, just that it's not solely determinative, is that right?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Daniel2

[thesometimesaint]

Reading through the link you provided on Wikipedia agrees with the article I subsequently edited into the end of my previous post.

When you say "strictly genetic," it sounds as though you DO agree there is a genetic component, just that it's not solely determinative, is that right?

 

I'm a moderately conservative liberal.   If there is a genetic component we haven't discovered it yet. However I do believe we should keep looking if for no other reason than to have more compassion and understanding of our homosexual brothers and sisters.

[canard78]

**SIGH**

[Brian 2.0]

Studies I have read show children raised by gay parents are more likely to struggle with gender sexual identity.

 

As you CFR that I'll repost my Post #343 which contains 7 studies from reputable Universities that counter a number of your claims in this thread.

 

You simply replied to that post with a different study, which I addressed in Post #379 where I point out the significant flaws in the study you countered with.

 

I still await any reply from you on the 7 studies I pointed you to that counter your claims.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Brian 2.0

[Rodeo]

As you CFR that I'll repost my Post #343 which contains 7 studies from reputable Universities that counter a number of your claims in this thread.

 

You simply replied to that post with a different study, which I addressed in Post #379 where I point out the significant flaws in the study you countered with.

 

I still await any reply from you on the 7 studies I pointed you to that counter your claims.

The study is based against families of stable parents who were able to raise their children while remaining truly monogamous. The results in that respect do not lie. Children raised by gay parents are 3-4 times more likely to identify as something other than heterosexual when they reach adulthood.

[Rodeo]

CFR.

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

[Daniel2]

I'm a moderately conservative liberal. If there is a genetic component we haven't discovered it yet. However I do believe we should keep looking if for no other reason than to have more compassion and understanding of our homosexual brothers and sisters.

So, do you disagree with the article I posted at the bottom of the previous page...?:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10637532/Being-homosexual-is-only-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html

Edited September 17, 2014 by Daniel2

[thesometimesaint]

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

 

The Family Resources Counsil is not trustworthy organization with any recognized credentials.

[thesometimesaint]

So, do you disagree with the article I posted at the bottom of the previous page...?:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10637532/Being-homosexual-is-only-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html

 

Yes.

[rockpond]

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

 

Is there any way that we can get you to realize that using an anti-gay lobbying group as the source for your "knowledge" of homosexuals is NOT going to give you a balanced or realistic perspective?  Frankly, it doesn't even seem to be giving you a perspective that aligns with the Church's current position.

[Rodeo]

Is there any way that we can get you to realize that using an anti-gay lobbying group as the source for your "knowledge" of homosexuals is NOT going to give you a balanced or realistic perspective?  Frankly, it doesn't even seem to be giving you a perspective that aligns with the Church's current position.

He has defended his study under great scrutiny. He has even said there may be other approaches to the study but they all too are going to be biased. His study was the first to see long term overall effects of adults who had childhoods raised in different manners. His research results coincide perfectly with what our church leaders have been teaching for hundreds of years. Children do indeed fare the best when raised by a mother and father who are married and stay monogamous and together over the long haul. It also shows from the research that how children are raised does indeed have an impact on how they identify their sexuality later in life.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Rodeo

[Rodeo]

The Family Resources Counsil is not trustworthy organization with any recognized credentials.

They never quote the prophets and apostles from the Ensign either. So who would you believe- what man has to say or actual prophets and spokesmen of God? The study wasn't conducted by the FRC anyway so whats the point?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Rodeo

[Tsuzuki]

Children raised by gay parents are 3-4 times more likely to identify as something other than heterosexual when they reach adulthood.

If true, I think that's awesome. Of course, that could just mean that there are already more people that aren't strictly heterosexual, and that being raised by gay parents just makes them more likely to be open about it, but either way, more openly queer people in the world is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.

[rockpond]

He has defended his study under great scrutiny. He has even said there may be other approaches to the study but they all too are going to be biased. His study was the first to see long term overall effects of adults who had childhoods raised in different manners. His research results coincide perfectly with what our church leaders have been teaching for hundreds of years. 

 

FYI, real scientists do peer-reviewed studies and publish in accredited journals.

 

But hey, if they agree with church leaders, fantastic... cause our church leaders have been so consistently right regarding homosexuality <note sarcasm>.

 

In any case, I see that the answer to my question is "no, there is no way we can get you to stop looking exclusively to an anti-gay lobbying organization for your information on homosexuality".  I guess maybe I should go get all my information on the church from MormonThink.

Edited September 17, 2014 by rockpond

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The Family Resources Counsil is not trustworthy organization with any recognized credentials.

There it is, 0 rebuttal just a blatant dismissal.

[Calm]

**SIGH**

Yep, the same old same old is still the same old around here.