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Are There Really 3 Kingdoms In Heaven?

VideoGameJunkie

By VideoGameJunkie
in General Discussions

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VideoGameJunkie Grand Master

VideoGameJunkie

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I ask because this was a post from another thread talking about why he doesn't believe in the Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial Kingdom order:

 

"Almost in their entirety the scriptures speak of just heaven and hell. Two places. It all makes sense when you read the New Testament and Book of Mormon- a nice dichotomy where the saved are on the right hand and the damned on the left hand- sheep or goats, wheat or tares, etc. Then you have this three kingdom doctrine that doesn't really fit into all that Christ spoke of in the other scriptures. This three kingdom doctrine elaborates that even the liars whores remain unrepentant and yet are eventually saved from hell in the end. Its all a contradiction and makes the New Testament and Book of Mormon to be a work of fiction. That is why I do not believe the 3 world model- it goes against Christ's very teaching."

 

What do you all think? Does the 3 kingdoms of heaven go against what Christ taught? What evidence besides D&C 76 is there of the more than one heaven? How come it wasn't mentioned until Joseph Smith's time? Why did Jesus never teach about the multiple kingdoms?

Tsuzuki Mentor

Tsuzuki

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I think that the three kingdoms are largely symbolic, and in reality there are as many "kingdoms" as there are people. Even exaltation is experienced differently for each person, because we are all unique. I don't believe that anyone can remain unrepentant given an infinite amount of time (not even the Devil), so I don't believe in unending punishment. Eventually, every knee will bend, and every tongue will confess, etc.

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Buzzard Mentor

Buzzard

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Heaven and hell are what we LDS would understand as Paradise and Spirit Prison.  They are temporary, though the hell of unending regret for those who "remaineth and dieth an enemy to God" (Thanks, King Benjamin!) won't go away.

While I think there will be three kingdoms, within each kingdom, there will be an infinite gradation of rewards.  I suspect that your garden variety fornicator will have it a little easier than the dark corner of the telestial kingdom that the Hitlers of the world will find themselves in. 

Remember, those who end up in a lower kingdom will be happier there than they would be if forced to endure the presence of God in the celestial due to the choices they have made in this life. 

VideoGameJunkie Grand Master

VideoGameJunkie

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Unless of course the fornicator repents, then he has a chance at the higher kingdoms. I assume everyone at the top of the Celestial Kingdom experiences the same whiteness and brightness of their robes.

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Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

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Keep thinking of the saved being on the right side and the evil on the left, because as far as that idea goes it is correct. The saved go to heaven and the evil all go to hell.

Now consider how big heaven is and wonder if all of the saved will be put in the same spot in heaven and have the same degree of glory/intelligence after each has been judged/graded for their works and to what degree each has accepted the gospel and everything else God has told them. What does reason tell you?

Tsuzuki Mentor

Tsuzuki

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As a bit of trivia, the three degrees of glory map very well on to the Kabbalistic Tree of Life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life_(Kabbalah)

 

Celestial Kingdom = The Supernal Triad of Kether, Chokmah, and Binah

Terrestrial Kingdom = The Ethical Triad of Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth

Telestial Kingdom = The Astral Triad of Netzach, Hod, and Yesod

 

Mortal Life = Malkuth

 

 

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Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

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Reason would say that there would be multiple divisions that souls would go to. But then shouldn't there be multiple divisions of hell as well?

Yeah but who really cares about that. Everyone who goes to hell is put somewhere in hell, and all of hell is in hell.

Much better to go to heaven. Anywhere in heaven. Even the least intelligent/glorious person in heaven will tell you that much.

teddyaware Grand Master

teddyaware

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I ask because this was a post from another thread talking about why he doesn't believe in the Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial Kingdom order:

 

"Almost in their entirety the scriptures speak of just heaven and hell. Two places. It all makes sense when you read the New Testament and Book of Mormon- a nice dichotomy where the saved are on the right hand and the damned on the left hand- sheep or goats, wheat or tares, etc. Then you have this three kingdom doctrine that doesn't really fit into all that Christ spoke of in the other scriptures. This three kingdom doctrine elaborates that even the liars whores remain unrepentant and yet are eventually saved from hell in the end. Its all a contradiction and makes the New Testament and Book of Mormon to be a work of fiction. That is why I do not believe the 3 world model- it goes against Christ's very teaching."

 

What do you all think? Does the 3 kingdoms of heaven go against what Christ taught? What evidence besides D&C 76 is there of the more than one heaven? How come it wasn't mentioned until Joseph Smith's time? Why did Jesus never teach about the multiple kingdoms?

 

I believe I know who wrote that erroneous comment. But our erroneous commentator shouldn't feel too bad because it's likely most Latter-day Saints believe the same incorrect doctrine. The fact is the Doctrine and Covenants makes it quite clear that unrepentant liars and whores will not under any circumstances inherit a kingdom of glory, not even the telestial kingdom.

 

The reason why this incorrect understanding has become widespread is because the pertinent verses in Doctrine and Covenants 76 are almost always misunderstood because they are read out of context, in isolation from subsequent clarifying passages that clear up the doctrinal fog. What D&C 76 actually teaches is that the unrepentant wicked are first sent to hell in hope that they will learn how to repent by first being made to suffer for their owns sins:

103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.

105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God... (D&C 76)

So it's plain to see the unrepentant wicked are cast down to hell to suffer the wrath of God, as fit punishment for their sins (remember that Alma the younger was also thrust into his own private hell for three days, and it is there that he said he suffered exquisitely for his life of rebellion). It's extremely important to understand that before the wicked can inherit a kingdom of glory they must first be thrust into hell in the hope that their sufferings will eventually soften their hardened hearts, and this that they might eventually come unto the Saviour and receive mercy at His hand...

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. (D&C 76)

 

So here we see that these wicked will suffer God's wrath in hell until Christ subdues them in love by first allowing them to suffer the consequences of their own unrighteous folly, without mitigation. In verse 107 we learn that this process of suffering for sin and subdual is referred to as Christ trodding the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God (in this most solemn symbolism, Christ is the presser who trods grapes and the wicked are the grapes of wrath) So eventually, after learning the hard lessons of strict divine love, the formerly wicked emerge from hell in the final resurrection with a remission of sins, their wicked natures having been overcome and subdued by Christ. And so we read:

30 But behold, from among the righteous (in the spirit world), he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound (in the spirit prison, or hell), even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.

 

So I hope that now we can see the wicked will not inherit the telestial kingdom, but the formerly wicked. All but the sons of perdition will eventually repent and bow the knee in reverence to God and Christ...

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; (D&C 76)

 

Only the repentant can inherit a kingdom in one of the Father's many mansions of glory.

Edited by teddyaware
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Tsuzuki Mentor

Tsuzuki

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So if I repent now and keep the commandments from now on, I can inherit a spot in the Celestial Kingdom?

 

The Terrestrial Kingdom is for those who keep commandments. The Celestial is for those who command.

 

"I wish to notice this. We read in the Bible that there is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars. In the book of Doctrine and Covenants, the glories are called telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, which is the highest. These are worlds, different departments or mansions, in our Father's house. Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influence of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their fate upon anothers sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child. They cannot control themselves in the least, but James, Peter or somebody else must control them. They never can become Gods, nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal lives. They never can hold scepters of glory, majesty, and power in the celestial kingdom. Who will? Those who are valiant and inspired with the true independence of heaven, who will go forth boldly in the service of their God, leaving others to do as they please, determined to do right, though all mankind besides should take the opposite course. Will this apply to any of you? Your own hearts can answer."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol 1, p 312.

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strappinglad Grand Master

strappinglad

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As a 'gamer' , you are aware of various strategies for winning. You could  " eat , drink, and be merry " until about a week before you die and THEN repent and keep the commandments. You could repent now and take the chance that you will not be overwhelmed by life and not endure to the end. Or you could repent and sin and repent and sin and rely on the atonement to make up the shortfall.

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VideoGameJunkie Grand Master

VideoGameJunkie

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I've repented of my major sins in June and haven't done a major sin since, and I repent every morning and night for any little thing I may have done that could somehow count as a sin. That's my process, but when people bring up past sins, I think about my past, even though I know God remembers them no more, I still remember them in my head.

JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

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Joseph Smith -

"Paul saw the third heavens, and I more."

AND

"I know one who was caught up to the seventh heaven and saw and heard things not lawful for me to utter."

AND

"D&C 130:10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;"

Edited by JLHPROF
Rodeo Community Regular

Rodeo

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I was just reading through and wondering why there are so many different opinions? Is it safe to say we don't have this rodeo figured out yet?

JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

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Kingdom, or kingdoms? Curious to know if Jesus ever calls heaven in the plural kingdoms of heaven.

 

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2

Edited by JLHPROF
Rodeo Community Regular

Rodeo

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"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2

Many mansions doesn't equate to kingdoms. It could be translated- "In my Father's kingdom are many residences:...

Edited by Rodeo
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