K-2 Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 "A key: Every principle proceeding from God is eternal and any principle which is not eternal is of the devil."(Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 181)Questions: Would this apply to every principle of the gospel? What about something such as the Word of Wisdom - is it eternal, or it just specific instruction relevant only to this life? Can you think of any principle of the gospel that is not eternal?
ERayR Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 "A key: Every principle proceeding from God is eternal and any principle which is not eternal is of the devil."(Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 181)Questions: Would this apply to every principle of the gospel? What about something such as the Word of Wisdom - is it eternal, or it just specific instruction relevant only to this life? Can you think of any principle of the gospel that is not eternal? They are eternal or lead to the eternal.
katherine the great Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 According to scripture,"eternal" is also sometimes defined as "God". So an eternal principle might be God's principle. 2
The Nehor Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 The Word of Wisdom is not eternal. The Word of Wisdom is an application of a principle and is temporary and may change. Doctrines are truths like the knowledge of the attributes of God, premortality, the Plan of Salvation, the Atonement.Principles are things like charity, hope, faith, etc. Applications are how we live the principles we learn. Some are commanded temporarily. Some are just good ideas and some are always done. 1
ERayR Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 The Word of Wisdom is not eternal. The Word of Wisdom is an application of a principle and is temporary and may change. Doctrines are truths like the knowledge of the attributes of God, premortality, the Plan of Salvation, the Atonement.Principles are things like charity, hope, faith, etc. Applications are how we live the principles we learn. Some are commanded temporarily. Some are just good ideas and some are always done. D & C 29:34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual.
The Nehor Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 D & C 29:34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual. What? I wasn't distinguishing between temporal and spiritual commandments.
Stargazer Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) The Word of Wisdom is not eternal. The Word of Wisdom is an application of a principle and is temporary and may change. Doctrines are truths like the knowledge of the attributes of God, premortality, the Plan of Salvation, the Atonement. Principles are things like charity, hope, faith, etc. Applications are how we live the principles we learn. Some are commanded temporarily. Some are just good ideas and some are always done. That's exactly as I understand it. It is good to finally agree with you about something! Edited August 16, 2014 by Stargazer
Tiki Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 You have to obey the Word of Wisdom to qualify for the blessings of the Temple. But those blessings are not eternal, are they?"Much of President Grant’s motivation for preaching the Word of Wisdom came because he had a friend whose life was ruined by cigarettes and liquor. This young man gave up smoking so he could serve a mission, but he started to smoke immediately after his release from full-time missionary service. Smoking led to liquor drinking, and liquor drinking led to a loss of virtue and to excommunication from the Church. He died at a young age, and Heber J. Grant went to visit his grave. “As I stood at his grave,” President Grant recalled, “I looked up to heaven and made a pledge to my God that liquor and tobacco would have in me an enemy who would fight with all the ability that God would give me until the day of my death.”2https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-heber-j-grant/chapter-21?lang=eng&query=Word+of+wisdom
thesometimesaint Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 I think the principle behind the WoW is eternal. Don't do anything that leads us away from God.
Bikeemikey Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 WoW is not eternal, World of Warcraft on the other hand...I'm pretty sure that keeps god up late at night; trying to "level up"... You know how it is. 1
Coreyb Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Does Eternal mean it should/will always be practiced, or it will always have legitimate application in Gods plan? If the former, we are all under condemnation for not practicing animal sacrifices, eating unclean animals, not practicing plural marriage, not having all things in common, etc, etc.
cdowis Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 It's pretty obvious to me -- there is a difference between a practice (application) and a doctrine or principle. The example of polygamy comes to mind ==>> vicarious polygamy is still practiced in the temple today. The United Order vs tithing.
The Nehor Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 You have to obey the Word of Wisdom to qualify for the blessings of the Temple. But those blessings are not eternal, are they?"Much of President Grant’s motivation for preaching the Word of Wisdom came because he had a friend whose life was ruined by cigarettes and liquor. This young man gave up smoking so he could serve a mission, but he started to smoke immediately after his release from full-time missionary service. Smoking led to liquor drinking, and liquor drinking led to a loss of virtue and to excommunication from the Church. He died at a young age, and Heber J. Grant went to visit his grave. “As I stood at his grave,” President Grant recalled, “I looked up to heaven and made a pledge to my God that liquor and tobacco would have in me an enemy who would fight with all the ability that God would give me until the day of my death.”2https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-heber-j-grant/chapter-21?lang=eng&query=Word+of+wisdom We have to obey many temporary commandments to earn eternal blessings. That does not demean either the temporary commandments or the eternal blessings. Tithing will be subsumed into consecration some day but you can't use that as an excuse not to pay tithing now. We are commanded to give to the poor despite planning to one day eliminate poverty. Once circumcision was mandatory but now it is not. I hope no ancient saint learned that it would go away and used that as an excuse to break the commandment himself. 1
Tiki Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 We have to obey many temporary commandments to earn eternal blessings. That does not demean either the temporary commandments or the eternal blessings. Tithing will be subsumed into consecration some day but you can't use that as an excuse not to pay tithing now. We are commanded to give to the poor despite planning to one day eliminate poverty. Once circumcision was mandatory but now it is not. I hope no ancient saint learned that it would go away and used that as an excuse to break the commandment himself.Tithing will not be subsumed into the law of consecration. It is not a temporary law.Doctrine and Covenants 119:44 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.Forever.The whole point of being a steward over your physical body and possessions is to see if you will be obedient regarding the smaller things which will qualify you to be a ruler over many.Luke 19:1717 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.Matthew 25:2121 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.Matthew 25:2323 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
The Nehor Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 Tithing will not be subsumed into the law of consecration. It is not a temporary law.Doctrine and Covenants 119:44 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.Forever. The preconditions for tithing as expressed in that verse are in verses 1 through 3: 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,2 For the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.3 And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people. So unless you have given all your surplus property to the Church first (i.e. consecration) this is not tithing as we know it. Like I said it will be subsumed into consecration.
Ahab Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Questions: Would this apply to every principle of the gospel?Yes, it would, and does.What about something such as the Word of Wisdom - is it eternal, or it just specific instruction relevant only to this life?The principle involved in the WoW is eternal. Do you think you know what that principle is?Can you think of any principle of the gospel that is not eternal?No, I can not, and I take God's word that there is none that is not eternal.
Tiki Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 The preconditions for tithing as expressed in that verse are in verses 1 through 3: 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,2 For the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.3 And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people. So unless you have given all your surplus property to the Church first (i.e. consecration) this is not tithing as we know it. Like I said it will be subsumed into consecration.So you haven't attended the Temple, eh? I'll end it there.
The Nehor Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 So you haven't attended the Temple, eh? I'll end it there.I have attended actually so I will just chuckle at your smug and ignorant dismissal.
Ahab Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I have attended actually so I will just chuckle at your smug and ignorant dismissal.Next time through you may want to pay special attention to what you're saying when you accept the law of consecration. If you mean what you're saying everything you have and will have should already be consecrated, even if other members of the Church don't make that covenant in a temple.
The Nehor Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Next time through you may want to pay special attention to what you're saying when you accept the law of consecration. If you mean what you're saying everything you have and will have should already be consecrated, even if other members of the Church don't make that covenant in a temple. The covenant has been made but the organized application in its fulness is not in place due to the wickedness of the saints.
Ahab Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 The covenant has been made but the organized application in its fulness is not in place due to the wickedness of the saints.There is nothing preventing you from living that law right now, just as there is nothing preventing me. It doen't matter how many others live that law, or how many don't. What matters is what we do and how we use what we have.It still surprises me how many temple worthy members don't understand that. And no I'm not living that law as perfectly as I should either.
The Nehor Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 There is nothing preventing you from living that law right now, just as there is nothing preventing me. It doen't matter how many others live that law, or how many don't. What matters is what we do and how we use what we have.It still surprises me how many temple worthy members don't understand that. And no I'm not living that law as perfectly as I should either.The law requires me to consecrate my surplus property to the church through my bishop...all of it and receive a stewardship as needed. If you know of a way to do this please let me know. If not then we can live it partially but not fully.
Ahab Posted August 20, 2014 Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) The law requires me to consecrate my surplus property to the church through my bishop...all of it and receive a stewardship as needed. If you know of a way to do this please let me know. If not then we can live it partially but not fully.You simply give your surplus to the bishop, and then he will distribute it for you. And you can even direct where you want it to go, generally, using the donation slips that are usually by the door to the bishop's office (room).p.s. Be careful not to confuse the law of consecration with what was called the united order, which is not the way it works now. Edited August 20, 2014 by Ahab
The Nehor Posted August 20, 2014 Posted August 20, 2014 You simply give your surplus to the bishop, and then he will distribute it for you. And you can even direct where you want it to go, generally, using the donation slips that are usually by the door to the bishop's office (room).And I will receive a stewardship back from my property and can visit with the bishop to receive additional grants as needed as specified in scripture?
Ahab Posted August 20, 2014 Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) And I will receive a stewardship back from my property and can visit with the bishop to receive additional grants as needed as specified in scripture?Just ponder and think some more about the law of consecration that you agreed to in the temple. You remember and realize what you agreed to then, don't you? Use all that you have and all that God may yet give you, using it to build up the kingdom of God, and if or when you determine that you have more than you need you can give the excess to others through your bishop. And yes your bishop can also help you if you need help by opening either his storehouse or the windows of heaven. Edited August 20, 2014 by Ahab
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