The Nehor Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Communism is an economic system where the society controls the means of production for the benefit of all. Capitalism is the economic system where the individual controls the means of production for their own benefit. Neither one is the total solution of finite resources in the face of infinite greed. Seconded.
USU78 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Communism is an economic system where the society controls the means of production for the benefit of all. Capitalism is the economic system where the individual controls the means of production for their own benefit. Neither one is the total solution of finite resources in the face of infinite greed. Of course, that's where it always breaks down, doesn't it? I don't imagine any system produces truly wise, compassionate and righteous people very often. I certainly haven't observed it. Hence my gross distrust of those who advocate for any advance in government's bailiwick: it always seems to end with somebody getting bombarded by Baptists until they leave Illinois. 1
Guest Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Communism is an economic system where the society controls the means of production for the benefit of all.That is only half the story. It is a system that also controls on every level, freedom of religion and conscience, freedom of speech any due process.
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 That is only half the story. It is a system that also controls on every level, freedom of religion and conscience, freedom of speech any due process. I was talking merely about the ideas behind those two economic systems. If you want to be more results oriented then such can be, and is common in Capitalism too. NO single economic system so far presented has exclusive claim on those things. Really I am for well regulated Capitalism. IE; Where would you be if there were no regulations concerning the manufacture, control, and use of electricity?
Carebear0411 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.Try, I'm interested.
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Of course, that's where it always breaks down, doesn't it? I don't imagine any system produces truly wise, compassionate and righteous people very often. I certainly haven't observed it. Hence my gross distrust of those who advocate for any advance in government's bailiwick: it always seems to end with somebody getting bombarded by Baptists until they leave Illinois. I'm not anti-government though I certainly do object to somethings our government does in my name.
USU78 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 I'm not anti-government though I certainly do object to somethings our government does in my name. Because there's no more virtue in those elected or appointed than there is in the general population: "The Best and Brightest" is a dangerous myth. 1
stemelbow Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 From President Ezra Taft Benson's October 1988 General Conference address: I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.) I say we ignore President Benson's and Moroni's warnings at our own peril. This is my last post on this thread. I've said all I want to say or need to say. What secret combination has increased its evil influence and control over America and the entire world since 1988? Let's nail this down.
ERayR Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Because there's no more virtue in those elected or appointed than there is in the general population: "The Best and Brightest" is a dangerous myth. That is best case scenario. Closer to the truth is that most are polished con artists.
ERayR Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 What secret combination has increased its evil influence and control over America and the entire world since 1988? Let's nail this down. Don't waste your time trying to nail it down to one secret combination. It just doesn't work that way. There are and always have been a number of them from commercial to governments.
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Try, I'm interested. The Church system, like the State system, works because the vast majority of members have no desire to use it. Even a modest uptick in need can and does overwhelm the respective systems. State welfare is means tested, not needs tested like Church welfare. AFDC is Aid to Families with Dependent Children. No dependent children no AFDC. AFDC is also time limited. A total of 5 years is the maximum time allowed to use it, with no more than 2 consecutive years in those 5 years. Plus there is a mandatory welfare to work requirement. The Federal Reserve was established in 1913 by an act in open Congress as a result of the financial Panic 0f 1907.The Federal Reserve System, often referred to as the Federal Reserve or simply "the Fed," is the central bank of the United States. It was created by the Congress to provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. The Federal Reserve was created on December 23, 1913, when President Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act into law. Today, the Federal Reserve's responsibilities fall into four general areas.Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing money and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of full employment and stable prices.Supervising and regulating banks and other important financial institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers.Maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.Providing certain financial services to the U.S. government, U.S. financial institutions, and foreign official institutions, and playing a major role in operating and overseeing the nation's payments systems.Conspiracy theorist cranks aside. The science of Global Warming is well established. Here is just a partial list of scientific organization that agree that Global Warming is real and is happening right now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
Rob Osborn Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Wow, harsh. Crowds brings up a valid (because any question is valid to the questioner) question. This is not a very loving response. The welfare system of the church, when in correct operation, is nothing close to socialism/communism. Church welfare is short term, recipients are expected to give commiserate service for the help they receive, and they are encouraged to make generous fast offerings when they are financially stable. Big difference from the poverty-enabling way socialistic welfare "benefits" enrollees. Every time the prophets address secret combinations they are supporting ETB's teachings. During ETB's youthful era communism was the most glaring of the world's secret combinations and thus was his focus. Secret combinations are any groups of people intent on power and gain and who are willing to agree to either commit or secretly support any atrocity to get them. The installation of the Federal Reserve was an outcome of a secret combination. The ongoing destruction of the premises of The Constitution is being attempted through the manipulation of secret combinations. The attempt to give power to a world wide entity to control peoples lives through the manipulation of the "science" of global warming is a product of secret combinations. Satan does not limit his influence to one "ism", he multitasks. Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Whereas I am not a big fan of socialism or communism, neither am I a big fan of capitalism. In the wrong hands any of those types of governments/economies can rule as tyrants over the people and use secret combinations to kill, steal and enslave the masses. Socialism manifests itself in many forms. For instance, our postal service, road and bridge dept., health and family services are just three of many socialist programs in our country and none of them are the devils plans. I am so tired of hearing about this communist/socialist conspiracy to take over the world. That is not how the devil works. The devil uses any government "willing" to serve him be it one or two or many corrupt individuals. The BoM warned against specifically not allowing corrupt people to run the government or the laws that make up that government. Secret combinations are always accompanied with murder.
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Because there's no more virtue in those elected or appointed than there is in the general population: "The Best and Brightest" is a dangerous myth. Sadly there is often less. But then I'm not overly impressed with the general populations' virtue either.
ERayR Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Conspiracy theorist cranks aside. The science of Global Warming is well established. Here is just a partial list of scientific organization that agree that Global Warming is real and is happening right now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change Not so much. See recent threads. This may help. http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783
stemelbow Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Don't waste your time trying to nail it down to one secret combination. It just doesn't work that way. There are and always have been a number of them from commercial to governments. Benson was wrong when he said "A secret combination...?" He should have said "Secret combinations...?"
ERayR Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Benson was wrong when he said "A secret combination...?"He should have said "Secret combinations...?" I would have to see the quote but my guess he was speaking in particular of one of many. Why the hostility? Did I step on your favorite theory or did I kick your dog?
stemelbow Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 I would have to see the quote but my guess he was speaking in particular of one of many. Why the hostility? Did I step on your favorite theory or did I kick your dog? Hostility? I didn't know asking a question was so bad. I found the quote in Teddy's post, re-quoted it to ask the question. But now I'm curious which secret combinations have gained influence and strength since '88.
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Not so much. See recent threads. This may help. http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783 According to your link there has been no global warming in the last 10 years. That claim has been debunked.SEE
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Yawn. I have now changed my views because you posted some lame video. There has been no warming since 1998. And if this year is any clue it has been way below average. Why do I even waste my time?? Edited August 12, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram 3
ERayR Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 According to your link there has been no global warming in the last 10 years. That claim has been debunked. I see it is only valid if it supports your view. OK I think I have it. 1
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 I see it is only valid if it supports your view. OK I think I have it. What is the alternative to using the consensus of science to inform your opinion? There will always be outliers. Heck we even still have people who claim that tobacco use doesn't negatively impact health.SEE http://heartland.org/ideas/smokers-rights The Heartland Institute is also a big pusher of Climate Change DenialismSEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute
thesometimesaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Yawn. I have now changed my views because you posted some lame video. There has been no warming since 1998. And if this year is any clue it has been way below average. Why do I even waste my time?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwnrpwctIh4#t=449
teddyaware Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) What secret combination has increased its evil influence and control over America and the entire world since 1988? Let's nail this down.In my 2nd post on this thread, I said I would post no more because I had already said all I needed or wanted to say on this subject, and I meant what I said. But for the sake of clarification, I will post here one last time.In post #35 ERayR said: "Don't waste your time trying to nail it down to one secret combination. It just doesn't work that way. There are and always have been a number of them from commercial to governments."ERayR is mistaken and knows not whereof he speaks. It is clear that in his October 1988 General Conference address President Benson spoke of both "secret combinations (plural)" that lust for power, gain and glory and also of "a secret combination (singular)" 'that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries. Here's President Benson's quote"Secret combinations (plural)" lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. 'A secret combination ( singular) that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its (singular) evil influence and control over America and the entire world." (See Ether 8:18–25.) To remove all doubt as to what he was referring, President Benson included Ether 8:18-25 in the official text of his address, as found in the Ensign and on LDS.org. In these verses, we find Moroni warning the latter day Gentiles (us) of a particular worldwide secret combination (singular) that would seek to destroy freedom throughout the world. This is the very same secret combination (singular) to which President Benson was referring when he said, "a secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world." (See Ether 8:18–25.) Here is part of Moroni's prophetic warning...24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you (us), when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination (singular) which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning. (Ether 8:24-25) In the same address, President Benson makes it clear we should expect that this worldwide secret combination to enslave mankind would be "cleverly disguised;" and Moroni indicated the conspirators would be able to keep themselves hidden because the 'deceiver in chief," the "father of lies" would darkly inspire his servants with his secret plans and methods. In fact, the conspirators will be so confident that they are successfully pulling the wool over everyone's eyes that the Prophet Isaiah, speaking of these same conspirators, prophesied:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? (Isaiah 29)... but the Lord's servants, the Prophets, are given seeric power to peer through the obscuring smoke screen to see what the conspiators try so assiduously to hide from view..."23 And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant Gazelem, a stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light, that I may discover unto my people who serve me, that I may discover unto them the works of their brethren, yea, their secret works, their works of darkness, and their wickedness and abominations." (Alma 37)Be prepared for the lamentable fact that many Latter-day Saints will sneer at and mock President Benson's dire prophetic warning, claiming it is an embarrassing example of groundless fanaticism. There will be others who will employ every possible rationale to minimize or explain away the clear intent of what President Benson and Moroni prophesied. But that's just the way it is, for "there must needs be opposition in all things." And who can blame anyone for not wanting to believe them, for who in their right mind would want to believe there now exists an entrenched cabal of power hungry conspirators who are in league with the adversary, and who share his fervent desire to destroy the free agency of all mankind and then have themselves enthroned as 'almighty kings.' Nevertheless, Moroni warns us that God wants us to believe his prophetic warning and become fully awake to our awful situation.Here is Ezra Taft Benson's word on this all-important subject. We are free to believe or disbelieve him; but I, for one, believe and love the man for his indomitable courage as a modern General Moroni..."Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormon was the 'keystone of our religion' and the 'most correct' book on Earth (Doctrinal History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 56). This most correct book on Earth states that the downfall of two great American civilizations came as a result of secret conspiracies whose desire was to overthrow the freedom of the people. 'And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking', says Moroni, 'and also the destruction of the people of Nephi (Ether 8:21).' Now undoubtedly Moroni could have pointed out many factors that led to the destruction of the people, but notice how he singled out the secret combinations, just as the Church today could point out many threats to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God's work, but it has singled out the greatest threat as the godless conspiracy. There is no conspiracy theory in the Book of Mormon--it is a conspiracy fact. Then Moroni speaks to us in this day and says, 'wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you." (Ezra Taft Benson, April General Conference, 1972) I now back out of this thread no longer to either read nor respond to the storm of controversy that will likely follow. All my best to all... Edited August 12, 2014 by teddyaware
ERayR Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) In post #35 ERayR said: "Don't waste your time trying to nail it down to one secret combination. It just doesn't work that way. There are and always have been a number of them from commercial to governments."ERayR is mistaken and knows not whereof he speaks. It is clear that in his October 1988 General Conference address President Benson spoke of both "secret combinations (plural)" that lust for power, gain and glory and also of "a secret combination (singular)" 'that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries. Here's President Benson's quoteth"Secret combinations (plural)" lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. 'A secret combination ( singular) that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its (singular) evil influence and control over America and the entire world." (See Ether 8:18–25.) Please read for comprehension. You have pointed out that President Benson spoke of combinations (plural) and then zeroed in on a particular one of those that he was going to address. He did not dismiss the others but his purpose was to address one in particular. "lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing" = Commercial secrete combinations. that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its (singular) evil influence and control over America and the entire world." (See Ether 8:18–25.) = political combinations There are combinations made up of one or the other or both. Do you really think most business corporations or politicians really have your best interest in mind? Start here: http://www.mormonchronicle.com/waking-up-to-secret-combinations-an-lds-perspective-on-conspiracy/ Edited August 12, 2014 by ERayR
Senator Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) I now back out of this thread no longer to either read nor respond to the storm of controversy that will likely follow. I wish you would place this notice at the beginning of your post so as to let us know that since you don't care to respond to any responses, we therefore should not waste our time reading what you have to say in the first place. Edited August 12, 2014 by Senator
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