Stone holm Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Okay, I understand the concept that a Bishop or a Stake President initiates a disciplinary council. But if in fact there has been a sudden uptick in Disciplinary Councils for apostasy (something I am not sure is occurring) , are we to seriously believe that no Promptings are coming from Salt Lake City? I mean, really does anyone believe that all the Stake Presidents and Bishops just woke up one morning and decided, well today sounds like a great day to launch a boundary marking crusade?
Calm Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I can see it easily as a result of copycats...one local leader hearing of another thinking that perhaps it is wise to do something after all (all the media attention helps create the uptick which more local leaders hear about so they take action as well, etc.) and/or regional training that across the various areas in the states or worldwide mentions in general that public apostasy is serious and church courts should be considered as possible options in these cases and then local leaders applying such general counsel to their specific cases (would anyone be surprised if after training on including more women in ward council meetings, we started hearing of more specific cases?). 1
Paddy Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I don't think it matters whether a DC is initiated from the "top" or locally. Both areas of the church carry a similar responsibility. It is interesting that several high profile people were issued a "request to attend" at the same time. I can see why some would think it had higher coordination despite the church downplaying involvement. There real issue for me is whether the church was involved yet say they were not, rather than their involvement in the first place. 1
strappinglad Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 How are DCs initiated? Does the 'victim' call the Bishop and ask for one? Does the Bishop get a confession in an interview and decide to hold one? Is it ' noised around town' that something is wrong and the bishop hears the gossip and calls the offender in? Is the offense displayed on TV and inquiries are made? Does a member at large see a posting on FB or Twitter and relay the info to the bishop? What is the correct way to start the proceeding? Maybe the SP reads about a movement in the paper and wants to know how widespread the movement is and starts asking questions of the HC. Maybe he even dares to ask the Stake RS pres.
Duncan Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I thought I read that Dehlin and Kelly went to the media together to get maximum exposure, Waterman's has been known for awhile and kind of surprised it's taken this long
janderich Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Okay, I understand the concept that a Bishop or a Stake President initiates a disciplinary council. But if in fact there has been a sudden uptick in Disciplinary Councils for apostasy (something I am not sure is occurring) , are we to seriously believe that no Promptings are coming from Salt Lake City? I mean, really does anyone believe that all the Stake Presidents and Bishops just woke up one morning and decided, well today sounds like a great day to launch a boundary marking crusade?I think there is a fair likelyhood direction is coming from the Salt Lake via the "Strengthening Church Members Commitee" which watches for such issues and notifies local leaders.
Duncan Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I think there is a fair likelyhood direction is coming from the Salt Lake via the "Strengthening Church Members Commitee" which watches for such issues and notifies local leaders. well, if the SMCCMCSMS thing is actually doing this news clipping thing then maybe there shouldn't be any news to clip...and it seems high profile members not the average Jane Q Member Edited June 20, 2014 by Duncan
blooit Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Local leaders consult with general authorities a TON, about all sorts of matters. They do not operate in isolation.
janderich Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 well, if the SMCCMCSMS thing is actually doing this news clipping thing then maybe there shouldn't be any news to clip...and it seems high profile members not the average Jane Q MemberI,m not sure I understand your comment.
Duncan Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I,m not sure I understand your comment. good, good, let's keep it that way! no seriously, if some member is causing a big whoop then the Church will take notice, whether locally or on a national level (like Mitt Romney or that Napolean Dynamite man) but your average member who gets into huck like they cheated on their spouse or shot someone or something I doubt the brethren know or care 1
janderich Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 good, good, let's keep it that way! no seriously, if some member is causing a big whoop then the Church will take notice, whether locally or on a national level (like Mitt Romney or that Napolean Dynamite man) but your average member who gets into huck like they cheated on their spouse or shot someone or something I doubt the brethren know or careYes, in general I agree with you.
cdowis Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Dehlin and Kelley are getting the attention they are seeking. They anticipated the response of the church leaders, and have the phone number of the NYT reporter on their speed dial. As soon as they got THE letter, they instantly hit the button, and gave their breathless account of how the church.... etc etc etc. These so-called private emails -- they sent them to people who they know would report it to the church, and now they can make the claim that the church is monitoring their emails. Edited June 20, 2014 by cdowis 1
CV75 Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Okay, I understand the concept that a Bishop or a Stake President initiates a disciplinary council. But if in fact there has been a sudden uptick in Disciplinary Councils for apostasy (something I am not sure is occurring) , are we to seriously believe that no Promptings are coming from Salt Lake City? I mean, really does anyone believe that all the Stake Presidents and Bishops just woke up one morning and decided, well today sounds like a great day to launch a boundary marking crusade?The "uptick" may just be a matter of improved reporting and publication of disciplinary councils through personal and social media, but "if"... The issues are gaining such widespread attention and are so easily communicated by personal and mass media that it would be hard for a local leader to ignore or neglect any such thing going on in his unit. Those who are squeamish about disciplinary councils are not going to dodge them very easily. I'm sure these issues are topics of discussion in trainings where GAs help leaders sort through what warrants a disciplinary council and what does not. Whether there has been an actual directive from SLC to retrench with a special focus to clean house on specific topics of apostasy can be easily ascertained; we have plenty of local leaders on the board. 1
The Nehor Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 good, good, let's keep it that way! no seriously, if some member is causing a big whoop then the Church will take notice, whether locally or on a national level (like Mitt Romney or that Napolean Dynamite man) but your average member who gets into huck like they cheated on their spouse or shot someone or something I doubt the brethren know or care They may not know but I am pretty sure they care. 3
Stone holm Posted June 21, 2014 Author Posted June 21, 2014 I think there is a fair likelyhood direction is coming from the Salt Lake via the "Strengthening Church Members Commitee" which watches for such issues and notifies local leaders.I suspect you are right which is why it is a little disconcerting that the Church keeps suggesting that upper management is not involved and that these cases are strictly locally generated. It doesn't help our credibility to constantly make such disclaimers, which do not ring true. I see now that Terry Tempest Williams has spoken out in support of Kate Kelly, she teaches at Dartmouth, not sure where she lives so this storm may be coming to our neck of Mormondom.
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