What The Church Dna Essay Teaches Us

[ERayR]

http://cpms.byu.edu/MP/research.html

So the Church's flagship school is teaching false doctrine? You better inform the First Presidency of their heresy.

 

Red herring alert.  Just because it is taught t BYU does not make it doctrine or even correct.  I have yet to find a school textbook that is correct in all aspects.

[readstoomuch]

Goodbye. Thanks for the discussion. One of the more interesting discussions I have had. I am going to leave it at that.

[thesometimesaint]

Since you asked, I would have told her  the truth, that they existed. As far as evolution is concerned if you are equating evolution = We came from monkeys or anything else I would say that is false. If you are equating evolution = It took the Lord billions of years to create the perfect environment for his children so that He may bring to pass their immortality and eternal life I would say the latter.

 

Evolution doesn't claim we came from monkey's.

 

Agreed.

[MormonFreeThinker]

Even if the Flood was Global, and a baptism, it didn't have to be covered by an ocean. 

Look at this mountain, completely covered by water, not an ocean

[Rob Osborn]

Even if the Flood was Global, and a baptism, it didn't have to be covered by an ocean. 

Look at this mountain, completely covered by water, not an ocean

Rain isnt water that immerses and completely covers the earth. How would all life be destroyed in rains but no flood?

[Opinion Slayer]

So where is the giant space lake or baptismal font? Even Adam was baptized by that method, and by someone else. God the Father?

 

But okay, even if the flood was a baptism, the entire Earth didn't have to be covered by an ocean. 

Look at this mountain, completely covered by water, not an ocean. 

 

Thanks for ignoring the Noah article, it says the Flood was a symbol of baptism. 

"Thanks for ignoring the Noah article, it says the Flood was a symbol of baptism." I didn't ignore it it's just that your interpretation is awful and wrong. The link below is clear and right

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/flood-at-noahs-time

 

I'll trust what these prophets of God who held all the keys to the kingdom taught than your misguided and false opinion.

 

Brigham Young

This earth, in its present condition and situation, is not a fit habitation for the sanctified; but it abides the law of its creation, has been baptized with water, will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, and by-and-by will be prepared for the faithful to dwell upon.

—Brigham Young, (June 12, 1860) Journal of Discourses 8:83.

 

 

John Taylor

Some people talk very philosophically about tidal waves coming along. But the question is—How could you get a tidal wave out of the Pacific ocean, say, to cover the Sierra Nevadas? But the Bible does not tell us it was a tidal wave. It simply tells us that "all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered. Fifteen cubits upwards did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." That is, the earth was immersed. It was a period of baptism.

—John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 26:74-75..

 

Gordon B. Hinckley

Those of us who read and believe the scriptures are aware of the warnings of prophets concerning catastrophes that have come to pass and are yet to come to pass. There was the great Flood, when waters covered the earth and when, as Peter says, only “eight souls were saved” (1 Pet. 3:20). 

—Gordon B. Hinckley, “If Ye Are Prepared Ye Shall Not Fear,” Ensign, Nov 2005, 60 off-site

 

I also love the eloquence of Elder Pratt's quote too 

Orson Pratt

Another great change happened nearly two thousand years after the earth was made. It was baptized by water. A great flow of water come, the great deep was broken up, the windows of heaven were opened from on high, and the waters prevailed upon the face of the earth, sweeping away all wickedness and transgression-a similitude of baptism for the remission of sins. God requires the children of men to be baptized. What for? For the remission of sins. So he required our globe to be baptized by a flow of waters, and all of its sins were washed away, not one sin remaining.

—Orson Pratt, (August 1, 1880) Journal of Discourses 21:323.

 

Joseph received all his knowledge directly from the Lord and the actual prophets who we read about in the scriptures and he taught these teachings to Brigham, John Taylor and others which have been passed down to other prophets Like JFS and Pres. Hinckley. I'll follow their teaching on this subject you can follow whom ever you choose.

[Tiki]

Genesis 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

It's good that God covenanted never to send another "localized" flood. Except those who believe Noah's flood was a local flood, has made God out to be a liar.

[MormonFreeThinker]

 

"Thanks for ignoring the Noah article, it says the Flood was a symbol of baptism." I didn't ignore it it's just that your interpretation is awful and wrong. The link below is clear and right

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/flood-at-noahs-time

 

 

Well the gospel topic article says it was a symbol, and that Noah was also a symbol. Was Noah the Christ? No

 

But even if the planet was baptized, there was probably no need for an ocean to cover the Earth. 

 

"In the New Testament, Paul speaks of the children of Israel being baptized by Moses “in the cloud and in the sea” (1 Cor. 10:1–4)." https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/baptism

 

Not a lot of statements. 

Edited May 10, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[Opinion Slayer]

Well the gospel topic article says it was a symbol, and that Noah was also a symbol. Was Noah the Christ? No

 

But even if the planet was baptized, there was probably no need for an ocean to cover the Earth. 

 

"In the New Testament, Paul speaks of the children of Israel being baptized by Moses “in the cloud and in the sea” (1 Cor. 10:1–4)." https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/baptism

 

Not a lot of statements. 

"Well the gospel topic article says it was a symbol..." Not the link I sent you so read it again below.

 

During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21).

 

You see it specifically states the earth was baptized and the cleansing was symbolic so nice try. 

 

"But even if the planet was baptized, there was probably no need for an ocean to cover the Earth. "

IF? Seriously? I gave you the testimony of 3 prophets who held all the keys and there are many others who have done the same. Have you ever heard what the Lord has said about the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses?    

Joseph Smith taught that baptism came from the Greek Baptiso which means Immerse and Rantiso which means to scatter on by particles... (Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith pg. 262) And the earth was indeed baptized according to the prophets but if you want to believe that God has broken his covenant with Noah by believing the local flood theory go right ahead. I'll follow the prophets when it comes to doctrine over geologists any day but that's just me.

 

As for 1 Cor. 10:1-4 Elder McConkie explains that Paul was using an analogy as you can read for yourself. BTW in Mormon Doctrine Elder McConkie also teaches that the earth was batized by immersion and that it will be baptized by fire, die and be resurrected to abide celestial law. That's whats great about the prophets they clarify doctrine so people don't make incorrect interpretations as you have made about these 2 doctrines.

 

Bruce R. McConkie

 

"Baptism is an eternal ordinance, which was universally practiced in Israel, whenever that people followed the counsel of her prophets. Indeed, the very law of Moses itself was 'the preparatory gospel, . . . the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins.' (D&C 84:26-27.) All this the Corinthians knew, which makes Paul's analogy even more persuasive, for he is saying that even as Israel, when they passed through the Red Sea, fled from the worldliness of Egypt, so their Christian descendants, through baptism, are to forsake the lusts of the flesh and live godly lives; their fathers, Paul reasons, had been disciples of Moses, as it were, but they are disciples of Moses' Master, who is Christ." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965-1973], 2: 355.)

[thesometimesaint]

 

"Well the gospel topic article says it was a symbol..." Not the link I sent you so read it again below.

 

During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21).

 

You see it specifically states the earth was baptized and the cleansing was symbolic so nice try. 

 

"But even if the planet was baptized, there was probably no need for an ocean to cover the Earth. "

IF? Seriously? I gave you the testimony of 3 prophets who held all the keys and there are many others who have done the same. Have you ever heard what the Lord has said about the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses?    

Joseph Smith taught that baptism came from the Greek Baptiso which means Immerse and Rantiso which means to scatter on by particles... (Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith pg. 262) And the earth was indeed baptized according to the prophets but if you want to believe that God has broken his covenant with Noah by believing the local flood theory go right ahead. I'll follow the prophets when it comes to doctrine over geologists any day but that's just me.

 

As for 1 Cor. 10:1-4 Elder McConkie explains that Paul was using an analogy as you can read for yourself. BTW in Mormon Doctrine Elder McConkie also teaches that the earth was batized by immersion and that it will be baptized by fire, die and be resurrected to abide celestial law. That's whats great about the prophets they clarify doctrine so people don't make incorrect interpretations as you have made about these 2 doctrines.

 

Bruce R. McConkie

 

"Baptism is an eternal ordinance, which was universally practiced in Israel, whenever that people followed the counsel of her prophets. Indeed, the very law of Moses itself was 'the preparatory gospel, . . . the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins.' (D&C 84:26-27.) All this the Corinthians knew, which makes Paul's analogy even more persuasive, for he is saying that even as Israel, when they passed through the Red Sea, fled from the worldliness of Egypt, so their Christian descendants, through baptism, are to forsake the lusts of the flesh and live godly lives; their fathers, Paul reasons, had been disciples of Moses, as it were, but they are disciples of Moses' Master, who is Christ." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965-1973], 2: 355.)

 

 

Does water have weight ?

[MormonFreeThinker]

Bruce R. McConkie

 

"Baptism is an eternal ordinance, which was universally practiced in Israel, whenever that people followed the counsel of her prophets. Indeed, the very law of Moses itself was 'the preparatory gospel, . . . the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins.' (D&C 84:26-27.) All this the Corinthians knew, which makes Paul's analogy even more persuasive, for he is saying that even as Israel, when they passed through the Red Sea, fled from the worldliness of Egypt, so their Christian descendants, ou through baptism, are to forsake the lusts of the flesh and live godly lives; their fathers, Paul reasons, had been disciples of Moses, as it were, but they are disciples of Moses' Master, who is Christ." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965-1973], 2: 355.)

 

 

"Doctrinal New Testament Commentary" and "Journal of Discourses " are not published by the church, and the Noah article says

What is the symbolism of Noah and the flood? God uses symbols to teach gospel truths. In the New Testament, Peter explained that the flood was a “like figure” or symbol of baptism (1 Peter 3:20–21). Just as the earth was immersed in water, so we must be baptized by water and by the Spirit before we can enter the celestial kingdom. Also, Noah himself was a symbol of Christ. It was necessary for any living creature who wished to be saved to come “unto Noah into the ark” (Genesis 7:9, 15).

https://www.lds.org/topics/noah?lang=eng

 

But like I said, even if the Flood was Global, it didn't have to create an ocean to cover the Earth by water. In fact, Elder John A. Widtsoe said, "The fact remains that the exact nature of the flood is not known. We set up assumptions, based upon our best knowledge, but can go no further." [Widtsoe, p. 127].

 

"Joseph Smith taught that baptism came from the Greek Baptiso which means Immerse"

 

the word immerse means - "to put (something) in a liquid so that all parts are completely covered" 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immerse

Who put the Earth in a giant baptismal font?  

 

"As for 1 Cor. 10:1-4" 

 

Elder Charles W. Penrose said. "They were baptized the same as we have been" (You like the Journal of Discourses) 

Elder Harold B. Lee said in General Conference General Conference, "He was speaking of the ordinance of baptism in Moses' day when he wrote these words to the Corinthians:. . . how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;And were all baptized unto Moses... (1 Cor. 10:1-2)"  

 

"ave you ever heard what the Lord has said about the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses?"

Many church leaders teachings were not perfect, and more than 2 and 3 have make the same mistake. Read

https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood

 

2 witnesses tell me that there was death before the fall, Elder Talmage and Science. 

But what did some church leaders say?

 

Anyways, no need for an ocean. Look that the video, the mountain is completely covered by water. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[Opinion Slayer]

 

"Doctrinal New Testament Commentary" and "Journal of Discourses " are not published by the church, and the Noah article says

What is the symbolism of Noah and the flood? God uses symbols to teach gospel truths. In the New Testament, Peter explained that the flood was a “like figure” or symbol of baptism (1 Peter 3:20–21). Just as the earth was immersed in water, so we must be baptized by water and by the Spirit before we can enter the celestial kingdom. Also, Noah himself was a symbol of Christ. It was necessary for any living creature who wished to be saved to come “unto Noah into the ark” (Genesis 7:9, 15).

https://www.lds.org/topics/noah?lang=eng

 

But like I said, even if the Flood was Global, it didn't have to create an ocean to cover the Earth by water. In fact, Elder John A. Widtsoe said, "The fact remains that the exact nature of the flood is not known. We set up assumptions, based upon our best knowledge, but can go no further." [Widtsoe, p. 127].

 

"Joseph Smith taught that baptism came from the Greek Baptiso which means Immerse"

 

the word immerse means - "to put (something) in a liquid so that all parts are completely covered" 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immerse

Who put the Earth in a giant baptismal font?  

 

"As for 1 Cor. 10:1-4" 

 

Elder Charles W. Penrose said. "They were baptized the same as we have been" (You like the Journal of Discourses) 

Elder Harold B. Lee said in General Conference General Conference, "He was speaking of the ordinance of baptism in Moses' day when he wrote these words to the Corinthians:. . . how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;And were all baptized unto Moses... (1 Cor. 10:1-2)"  

 

"ave you ever heard what the Lord has said about the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses?"

Many church leaders teachings were not perfect, and more than 2 and 3 have make the same mistake. Read

https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood

 

2 witnesses tell me that there was death before the fall, Elder Talmage and Science. 

But what did some church leaders say?

 

Anyways, no need for an ocean. Look that the video, the mountain is completely covered by water. 

 

 

 

 

 

"Who put the Earth in a giant baptismal font?" The fact that you think you need a baptismal font to be baptized goes to show how childish this is getting since so many people have been baptized without one. But I guess for guys like you and mormonfreethinker who are desperately trying to defend scientific theories that completely deny the scriptures and the words of prophets who have held all the keys. 

 

GENESIS CHAPTER 7:17-20

 

Chapter 7

Noah’s family and various beasts and fowl enter the ark—The Flood comes, and water covers the whole earth—All other life that breathes is destroyed.

 

 17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/cubit?lang=eng&letter=c%C2'>

 

When it comes to the subject of the flood the scriptures are clear as day, grab a calculator and add it up. But if you don't want to believe the scriptures then that's your choice. I have delivered the testimony of multiple Prophets who have held all the keys to speak on behalf of the Lord and the Holy scriptures that have testified that the flood was global but if that is not enough for you and you prefer to believe the works of man good luck to you. You will need it when the tribulations come.

[thesometimesaint]

Opinion Slayer:

 

Does water have weight?

[MormonFreeThinker]

"Who put the Earth in a giant baptismal font?" The fact that you think you need a baptismal font to be baptized goes to show how childish this is getting since so many people have been baptized without one. But I guess for guys like you and mormonfreethinker who are desperately trying to defend scientific theories that completely deny the scriptures and the words of prophets who have held all the keys. 

 

"I have delivered the testimony of multiple Prophets who have held all the keys to speak on behalf of the Lord and the Holy scriptures that have testified that the flood was global"

 

Thanks for ignoring what I said in my previous post, I also quoted the prophets, and you just ignored the statements. 

and Journal of Discourses is not a church publication. 

 

"many people have been baptized without one"

True, but you need two people. So where was the giant river, lake, ocean of another planet? 

and like I said before, even if the Flood was Global, it didn't have to rain "Fifteen cubits upward" in all the planet. 

 

How can Fifteen cubits cover a mountain anyways? That is not an ocean. If you think Fifteen cubits upwards above the mountains (but the scripture doesn't say that), what about other mountains in other parts of the world that were taller?

 

If you mean Fifteen cubits upwards starting above mountain Everest,  why didn't Noah say that?

[thesometimesaint]

"I have delivered the testimony of multiple Prophets who have held all the keys to speak on behalf of the Lord and the Holy scriptures that have testified that the flood was global"

 

Thanks for ignoring what I said in my previous post, I also quoted the prophets, and you just ignored the statements. 

and Journal of Discourses is not a church publication. 

 

"many people have been baptized without one"

True, but you need two people. So where was the giant river, lake, ocean of another planet? 

and like I said before, even if the Flood was Global, it didn't have to rain "Fifteen cubits upward" in all the planet. 

 

How can Fifteen cubits cover a mountain anyways? That is not an ocean. If you think Fifteen cubits upwards above the mountains (but the scripture doesn't say that), what about other mountains in other parts of the world that were taller?

 

If you mean Fifteen cubits upwards starting above mountain Everest,  why didn't Noah say that?

 

If the earth is only 7000 years old. Mont. Everest didn't exist when Noah was alive. ; )

[Opinion Slayer]

Opinion Slayer:

 

Does water have weight?

In liquid form or frozen? What do you think?

Are you going to deny Genesis 7 17-20

[thesometimesaint]

In liquid form or frozen? What do you think?

Are you going to deny Genesis 7 17-20

 

A pound of water weighs the same whether liquid or solid or gas. It's the volume that changes.

Vapor canopy. This model, proposed by Whitcomb & Morris and others, proposes that much of the Flood water was suspended overhead until the 40 days of rain which caused the Flood. The following objections are covered in more detail by Brown.

• How was the water suspended, and what caused it to fall all at once when it did?
• If a canopy holding the equivalent to more than 40 feet of water were part of the atmosphere, it would raise the atmospheric pressure accordingly, raising oxygen and nitrogen levels to toxic levels.
• If the canopy began as vapor, any water from it would be superheated. This scenario essentially starts with most of the Flood waters boiled off. Noah and company would be poached. If the water began as ice in orbit, the gravitational potential energy would likewise raise the temperature past boiling.
• A canopy of any significant thickness would have blocked a great deal of light, lowering the temperature of the earth greatly before the Flood.
• Any water above the ozone layer would not be shielded from ultraviolet light, and the light would break apart the water molecules.

[Opinion Slayer]

  Dear Thesometimesaint and MormonFreethinker

 

Have you ever heard of The Institute of Religion for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?  Ultimate responsibility for the Institute program falls on the Church Board of Education, which is composed of the church's First Presidency, three members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and other leaders of the LDS Church. Here is the doctrine they teach about the flood as extracted from their manuals on the doctrine.

https://www.lds.org/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel/genesis-4-11-the-patriarchs?lang=eng

 

(4-15) Genesis 7:19. How Could the Flood Cover the Entire Earth, Including Mountains? What Was the Significance of This Immersion? 

 

“I would like to know by what known law the immersion of the globe could be accomplished. It is explained here in a few words: ‘The windows of heaven were opened’ that is, the waters that exist throughout the space surrounding the earth from whence come these clouds from which the rain descends. That was one cause. Another cause was ‘the fountains of the great deep were broken up’—that is something beyond the oceans, something outside of the seas, some reservoirs of which we have no knowledge, were made to contribute to this event, and the waters were let loose by the hand and by the power of God; for God said He would bring a flood upon the earth and He brought it, but He had to let loose the fountains of the great deep, and pour out the waters from there, and when the flood commenced to subside, we are told ‘that the fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained, and the waters returned from off the earth.’ Where did they go to? From whence they came. Now, I will show you something else on the back of that. Some people talk very philosophically about tidal waves coming along. But the question is—How could you get a tidal wave out of the Pacific ocean, say, to cover the Sierra Nevadas? But the Bible does not tell us it was a tidal wave. It simply tells that ‘all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered. Fifteen cubits upwards did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.’ That is, the earth was immersed. It was a period of baptism.” (John Taylor, in Journal of Discourses, 26:74–75.)

 

Orson Pratt declared:

 

“The first ordinance instituted for the cleansing of the earth, was that of immersion in water; it was buried in the liquid element, and all things sinful upon the face of the earth were washed away. As it came forth from the ocean floor, like the new-born child, it was innocent; it rose to newness of life. It was its second birth from the womb of mighty waters—a new world issuing from the ruins of the old, clothed with all the innocence of this first creation.” (In Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 4:20.)

 

“The earth, in its present condition and situation, is not a fit habitation for the sanctified; but it abides the law of its creation, has been baptized with water, will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, and by-and-by will be prepared for the faithful to dwell upon” (Brigham Young, in Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 4:20).

 

(4-16) The Flood Was an Act of Love

 

“Now I will go back to show you how the Lord operates. He destroyed a whole world at one time save a few, whom he preserved for his own special purpose. And why? He had more than one reason for doing so. This antediluvian people were not only very wicked themselves, but having the power to propagate their species, they transmitted their unrighteous natures and desires to their children, and brought them up to indulge in their own wicked practices. And the spirits that dwelt in the eternal worlds knew this, and they knew very well that to be born of such parentage would entail upon themselves an infinite amount of trouble, misery and sin. And supposing ourselves to be of the number of unborn spirits, would it not be fair to presume that we would appeal to the Lord, crying, ‘Father, do you not behold the condition of this people, how corrupt and wicked they are?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Is it then just that we who are now pure should take of such bodies and thus subject ourselves to most bitter experiences before we can be redeemed, according to the plan of salvation?’ ‘No,’ the Father would say, ‘it is not in keeping with my justice.’ ‘Well, what will you do in the matter; man has his free agency and cannot be coerced, and while he lives he has the power of perpetuating his species?’ ‘I will first send them my word, offering them deliverance from sin, and warning them of my justice, which shall certainly overtake them if they reject it, and I will destroy them from off the face of the earth, thus preventing their increase, and I will raise up another seed.’ Well, they did reject the preaching of Noah, the servant of God, who was sent to them, and consequently the Lord caused the rains of heaven to descend incessantly for forty days and nights, which flooded the land, and there being no means of escape, save for the eight souls who were obedient to the message, all the others were drowned. But, says the caviller, is it right that a just God should sweep off so many people? Is that in accordance with mercy? Yes, it was just to those spirits that had not received their bodies, and it was just and merciful too to those people guilty of the iniquity. Why? Because by taking away their earthly existence he prevented them from entailing their sins upon their posterity and degenerating them, and also prevented them from committing further acts of wickedness.” (John Taylor, in Journal of Discourses, 19:158–59.)

 

President Thomas S. Monson

“If you are a single college student, I ask you to make participation in institute a priority. Married students and other young adults are also welcome and encouraged to attend. Think of it. Friends will be made, the Spirit will be felt, and faith will be strengthened. I promise you that as you participate in institute and study the scriptures diligently, your power to avoid temptation and to receive direction of the Holy Ghost in all you do will be increased. Divine favor will attend those who humbly seek it. That is a promise which I leave with you.”

President Thomas S. Monson (April 21, 2009)

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley 

“We urge all for whom [institute] is available to take advantage of it. We do not hesitate to promise that your knowledge of the gospel will be increased, your faith will be strengthened, and you will develop wonderful associations and friendships.”

President Gordon B. Hinckley

 

 

Elder Boyd K. Packer 

“Students, if your values are in place, you will not hesitate to forego an elective class that may decorate your life in favor of instruction which can hold together the very foundation of it. Then, once enrolled, attend, study, and learn. Persuade your friends to do the same. You will never regret it; this I promise you.”

Elder Boyd K. Packer (in Conference Report, Apr. 1983, 91; or Ensign, May 1983, 67)

 

Elder L. Tom Perry 

“I know the power that comes from associations in the seminary and institute programs. It has enriched my life, and I know it will do the same for you. It will put a shield of protection around you to keep you free from the temptations and trials of the world. There is a great blessing in having a knowledge of the gospel. And I know of no better place for the young people of the Church to gain a special knowledge of sacred things than in the institute and seminary programs of the Church.”

Elder L. Tom Perry (in Conference Report, Oct. 1997, 82; or Ensign, Nov. 1997, 61-62)

 

Howard W. Hunter 

“We have a great responsibility ... in the Church to make sure our own members, our own young people, do not fall into that unfortunate category of being blinded, of being good, fine, worthy young men and women who are kept from the truths of the scriptures because they do not know where to find those truths and because they do not possess confidence between the covers of their standard works.... We ought to have a Church full of women and men who know the scriptures thoroughly, who cross-reference and mark them, who develop lessons and talks from the Topical Guide, and who have mastered themaps, the Bible Dictionary, and the other helps that are contained in this wonderful set of standard works” (Howard W. Hunter, Eternal Investments[Address to CES religious educators, Feb. 10, 1989], 2-3).

“Those who delve into the scriptural library, however, find that to understand requires more than casual reading or perusal - there must be concentrated study” (Howard W. Hunter, Reading the Scriptures, Ensign, Nov. 1979, 64).

 

So you guys can continue to believe what you want and subscribe to the opinions and teachings of man mingled with scripture all you like. It won't change the fact that this is a doctrine of Jesus Christ that the church teaches. And I support, endorse and testify as the prophets have that the earth was indeed baptized and the flood was global.

 

If you don't believe in the church's institute then that's on you and your problem not mine.

 

Drops the mic and walks off the stage

[Rob Osborn]

If the earth is only 7000 years old. Mont. Everest didn't exist when Noah was alive. ; )

The mountains rose and the valleys sank after the flood. Mt. Everest and all other mountain chains rose as a result of the flood to create a barrier so that the flood waters would never again be a flood to cover all the earth. If you read your scriptures this is what it says. But, its a whole different matter if you dont believe the scriptures.

[MormonFreeThinker]

If you don't believe in the church's institute then that's on you and your problem not mine.

 

Old Testament Student Manual Genesis-2 Samuel, (1980), 26–36

"Very few people, either members of the Church or members of other religions, hold to this theory, since the evidence for longer processes involved in the Creation is substantial."

"If this last meaning was the sense in which Moses used the word day, then the apparent conflict between the scriptures and much of the evidence seen by science as supporting a very old age for the earth is easily resolved. Each era or day of creation could have lasted for millions or even hundreds of millions of our years, and uniformitarianism could be accepted without any problem. (For an excellent discussion of this approach see Henry Eyring, “The Gospel and the Age of the Earth,” [improvement Era, July 1965, pp. 608–9, 626, 628]." 

 

"the orderly structure of these horizontally lying layers, with their fossils, argues strongly against the notion that the earth has been assembled, relatively recently, from the wreckage of earlier worlds."

From Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1983), 53-62

 

"The concern of most LDS scientists is as to what extent President Smith's interpretations must replace those of Brother Talmage and of Brother Widtsoe where they fail to agree with President Smith." 

Sincerely Yours, Henry Eyring

[Opinion Slayer]

Old Testament Student Manual Genesis-2 Samuel, (1980), 26–36

"Very few people, either members of the Church or members of other religions, hold to this theory, since the evidence for longer processes involved in the Creation is substantial."

"If this last meaning was the sense in which Moses used the word day, then the apparent conflict between the scriptures and much of the evidence seen by science as supporting a very old age for the earth is easily resolved. Each era or day of creation could have lasted for millions or even hundreds of millions of our years, and uniformitarianism could be accepted without any problem. (For an excellent discussion of this approach see Henry Eyring, “The Gospel and the Age of the Earth,” [improvement Era, July 1965, pp. 608–9, 626, 628]." 

 

"the orderly structure of these horizontally lying layers, with their fossils, argues strongly against the notion that the earth has been assembled, relatively recently, from the wreckage of earlier worlds."

From Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1983), 53-62

 

"The concern of most LDS scientists is as to what extent President Smith's interpretations must replace those of Brother Talmage and of Brother Widtsoe where they fail to agree with President Smith." 

Sincerely Yours, Henry Eyring

You must have a serious comprehension problem. Because first, It's the first presidency and Quorum of the 12 that authorized the doctrine (Global flood/Baptism) in those manuals. Second The age of the earth is a completely different subject than the global flood and baptism of the earth which you still deny. But like I said that's your problem not mine, it's church doctrine whether you like it or not or it wouldn't be approved, endorsed and taught by church employees of the church.

 

You are only fooling yourself if you think the global flood/Baptism as taught by the prophets didn't exist. You said you wouldn't believe in a global flood unless the church makes an official declaration. Well they already have and you still don't want to believe it so once again your problem not mine. Pride always comes before the fall!

[thesometimesaint]

Opinion Slayer:

 

I met my wife-to-be at The Institute of Religion for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Didn't believe everything said then and don't believe it now.

[MormonFreeThinker]

You must have a serious comprehension problem. Because first, It's the first presidency and Quorum of the 12 that authorized the doctrine (Global flood/Baptism) in those manuals. Second The age of the earth is a completely different subject than the global flood and baptism of the earth which you still deny. 

 

"The age of the earth is a completely different subject than the global flood" 

 

Some church manuals say that there was no death before the fall, but Elder Talmage, Elder Widtsoe, and Henry Eyring disagree. I think that in the near future, some apostles will say that science contradicts the Global Flood, just like some have for the "No death before the Fall" theory. 

 

Church manuals are not official church declarations, read the Mormon Doctrine topic that I created. 

[Opinion Slayer]

Old Testament Student Manual Genesis-2 Samuel, (1980), 26–36

"Very few people, either members of the Church or members of other religions, hold to this theory, since the evidence for longer processes involved in the Creation is substantial."

"If this last meaning was the sense in which Moses used the word day, then the apparent conflict between the scriptures and much of the evidence seen by science as supporting a very old age for the earth is easily resolved. Each era or day of creation could have lasted for millions or even hundreds of millions of our years, and uniformitarianism could be accepted without any problem. (For an excellent discussion of this approach see Henry Eyring, “The Gospel and the Age of the Earth,” [improvement Era, July 1965, pp. 608–9, 626, 628]." 

 

"the orderly structure of these horizontally lying layers, with their fossils, argues strongly against the notion that the earth has been assembled, relatively recently, from the wreckage of earlier worlds."

From Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1983), 53-62

 

"The concern of most LDS scientists is as to what extent President Smith's interpretations must replace those of Brother Talmage and of Brother Widtsoe where they fail to agree with President Smith." 

Sincerely Yours, Henry Eyring

While it is interesting to note these various theories, officially the Church has not taken a stand on the age of the earth. For reasons best known to Himself, the Lord has not yet seen fit to formally reveal the details of the Creation. Therefore, while Latter-day Saints are commanded to learn truth from many different fields of study (see D&C 88:77–79), an attempt to establish any theory as the official position of the Church is not justifiable.

 

Opinion Slayer:

 

I met my wife-to-be at The Institute of Religion for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Didn't believe everything said then and don't believe it now.

If you don't want to believe in the doctrine in the manuals approved by the first presidency and Quorum of the 12 that's your problem not mine. It doesn't change the fact that the church teaches it and endorses it.

[MormonFreeThinker]

While it is interesting to note these various theories, officially the Church has not taken a stand on the age of the earth. For reasons best known to Himself, the Lord has not yet seen fit to formally reveal the details of the Creation. Therefore, while Latter-day Saints are commanded to learn truth from many different fields of study (see D&C 88:77–79), an attempt to establish any theory as the official position of the Church is not justifiable.

 

If you don't want to believe in the doctrine in the manuals approved by the first presidency and Quorum of the 12 that's your problem not mine. It doesn't change the fact that the church teaches it and endorses it.

 

Sure, the church does not have an official position on the Flood and age of the Earth. 

The Gospel Topic articles contradict previous church leader teachings and church manuals, like the introduction to the Book of Mormon. 

 

Elder Talmage taught that there was death before the Fall. 

 

Science is also a source to find the truth.