Duncan Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I admit I am trying hard to figure out what Elder Oaks is saying in regards to Priesthood, it seems so far to me, over the moon. I have two questions. In a 1987 General Conference address he said "It is a very sacred responsibility for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to speak for the Lord in giving a priesthood blessing. As the Lord has told us in modern revelation, “My word … shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38). If a servant of the Lord speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, his words are “the will of the Lord, … the mind of the Lord, … the word of the Lord, … [and] the voice of the Lord” (D&C 68:4).But if the words of a blessing only represent the priesthood holder’s own desires and opinions, uninspired by the Holy Ghost, then the blessing is conditioned on whether it represents the will of the Lord." Elder Oaks April 1987 GCMy question is, if you are the recipient of the blessing and you wrote out the promises and blessings how are you supposed to know they'll be fulfilled or not and represent the will of the Lord if as Elder Oaks says they are merely what the person giving the blessing wants? How are you supposed to know what comes from whom and what is legit?Wait there's morein April 2010 he said, "Another part of a priesthood blessing is the words of blessing spoken by the elder after he seals the anointing. These words can be very important, but their content is not essential and they are not recorded on the records of the Church. "What does he mean the words can be very important but not essential? Are they or aren't they. To add another wrinkle, why be worthy then if what you say really isn't important and the person will be fine or not fine according to the will of God. It seems that whatever we do God's will overrides everything so why do anything, why be worthy then? thank you!
Bikeemikey Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I admit I am trying hard to figure out what Elder Oaks is saying in regards to Priesthood, it seems so far to me, over the moon. I have two questions. In a 1987 General Conference address he said "It is a very sacred responsibility for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to speak for the Lord in giving a priesthood blessing. As the Lord has told us in modern revelation, “My word … shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38). If a servant of the Lord speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, his words are “the will of the Lord, … the mind of the Lord, … the word of the Lord, … [and] the voice of the Lord” (D&C 68:4).But if the words of a blessing only represent the priesthood holder’s own desires and opinions, uninspired by the Holy Ghost, then the blessing is conditioned on whether it represents the will of the Lord." Elder Oaks April 1987 GCMy question is, if you are the recipient of the blessing and you wrote out the promises and blessings how are you supposed to know they'll be fulfilled or not and represent the will of the Lord if as Elder Oaks says they are merely what the person giving the blessing wants? How are you supposed to know what comes from whom and what is legit?Wait there's morein April 2010 he said, "Another part of a priesthood blessing is the words of blessing spoken by the elder after he seals the anointing. These words can be very important, but their content is not essential and they are not recorded on the records of the Church. "What does he mean the words can be very important but not essential? Are they or aren't they. To add another wrinkle, why be worthy then if what you say really isn't important and the person will be fine or not fine according to the will of God. It seems that whatever we do God's will overrides everything so why do anything, why be worthy then? thank you! I admit I am trying hard to figure out what Elder Oaks is saying in regards to Priesthood, it seems so far to me, over the moon. I have two questions. In a 1987 General Conference address he said "It is a very sacred responsibility for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to speak for the Lord in giving a priesthood blessing. As the Lord has told us in modern revelation, “My word … shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38). If a servant of the Lord speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, his words are “the will of the Lord, … the mind of the Lord, … the word of the Lord, … [and] the voice of the Lord” (D&C 68:4).But if the words of a blessing only represent the priesthood holder’s own desires and opinions, uninspired by the Holy Ghost, then the blessing is conditioned on whether it represents the will of the Lord." Elder Oaks April 1987 GCMy question is, if you are the recipient of the blessing and you wrote out the promises and blessings how are you supposed to know they'll be fulfilled or not and represent the will of the Lord if as Elder Oaks says they are merely what the person giving the blessing wants? How are you supposed to know what comes from whom and what is legit?Wait there's morein April 2010 he said, "Another part of a priesthood blessing is the words of blessing spoken by the elder after he seals the anointing. These words can be very important, but their content is not essential and they are not recorded on the records of the Church. "What does he mean the words can be very important but not essential? Are they or aren't they. To add another wrinkle, why be worthy then if what you say really isn't important and the person will be fine or not fine according to the will of God. It seems that whatever we do God's will overrides everything so why do anything, why be worthy then? thank you! All very interesting questions. This is going to be a two-steps forward one set sideways and the occasional step backwards for the next decade while this conversation plays itself out. I to am simply trying to digest what he said. 1
CV75 Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I admit I am trying hard to figure out what Elder Oaks is saying in regards to Priesthood, it seems so far to me, over the moon. I have two questions. In a 1987 General Conference address he said "It is a very sacred responsibility for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to speak for the Lord in giving a priesthood blessing. As the Lord has told us in modern revelation, “My word … shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38). If a servant of the Lord speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, his words are “the will of the Lord, … the mind of the Lord, … the word of the Lord, … [and] the voice of the Lord” (D&C 68:4).But if the words of a blessing only represent the priesthood holder’s own desires and opinions, uninspired by the Holy Ghost, then the blessing is conditioned on whether it represents the will of the Lord." Elder Oaks April 1987 GCMy question is, if you are the recipient of the blessing and you wrote out the promises and blessings how are you supposed to know they'll be fulfilled or not and represent the will of the Lord if as Elder Oaks says they are merely what the person giving the blessing wants? How are you supposed to know what comes from whom and what is legit?Wait there's morein April 2010 he said, "Another part of a priesthood blessing is the words of blessing spoken by the elder after he seals the anointing. These words can be very important, but their content is not essential and they are not recorded on the records of the Church. "What does he mean the words can be very important but not essential? Are they or aren't they. To add another wrinkle, why be worthy then if what you say really isn't important and the person will be fine or not fine according to the will of God. It seems that whatever we do God's will overrides everything so why do anything, why be worthy then? thank you!There are other considerations having to do with the will and faith of the recipient of the blessing, but are not included for the specific purposes of his talk. In other words, if the words of a blessing only represent or are understood by the recipient’s own desires and opinions, uninspired by the Holy Ghost, then the blessing is conditioned on whether it represents the will of the Lord—which it is anyway. All blessings are so conditioned. That which is essential is that which is to be bound on earth and in heaven (our covenants and Patriarchal Blessings). Some things like priesthood blessings do not have to be “word perfect” or recorded in the same way the saving covenants and Patriarchal Blessings are. Despite God’s will, we strive to be worthy because that is how we submit our will to His. It gives us the power he wishes to share with us.
Rob Osborn Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I have always felt and continue to feel that the keys of the priesthood gives one the power to make one righteous will the power of the heavens to bind and seal. Often times priesthood holders worry about speaking the will of God to people when blessing them. But what is the will of God? I think there is a better approach. Speak the words that you wish to convey at the time you bless as moved upon by the Holy Ghost which gift is already within us. A person getting blessed may know by the power of the Holy Ghost if the words spoken are indeed sealed and ratified by the Holy Ghost. 1
webbles Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 For your second question, a blessing doesn't need many words. You might do the bare minimum of the blessing and it can still be extremely powerful. So in that sense, they are not essential. But sometimes, it is the words that comfort the person receiving the blessing. So in that case, it is important. The words weren't essential to actually bless the person, but they were important to the person. That's how I view it. 1
The Nehor Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 The words can be important because they provide consolation or comfort to the hearer even if they are not essential to the healing. As to know whether you can trust the words the Priesthood bearer speaks listen to the Spirit. 1
Storm Rider Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I admit I am trying hard to figure out what Elder Oaks is saying in regards to Priesthood, it seems so far to me, over the moon. I have two questions. In a 1987 General Conference address he said "It is a very sacred responsibility for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to speak for the Lord in giving a priesthood blessing. As the Lord has told us in modern revelation, “My word … shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38). If a servant of the Lord speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, his words are “the will of the Lord, … the mind of the Lord, … the word of the Lord, … [and] the voice of the Lord” (D&C 68:4).But if the words of a blessing only represent the priesthood holder’s own desires and opinions, uninspired by the Holy Ghost, then the blessing is conditioned on whether it represents the will of the Lord." Elder Oaks April 1987 GCMy question is, if you are the recipient of the blessing and you wrote out the promises and blessings how are you supposed to know they'll be fulfilled or not and represent the will of the Lord if as Elder Oaks says they are merely what the person giving the blessing wants? How are you supposed to know what comes from whom and what is legit?Wait there's morein April 2010 he said, "Another part of a priesthood blessing is the words of blessing spoken by the elder after he seals the anointing. These words can be very important, but their content is not essential and they are not recorded on the records of the Church. "What does he mean the words can be very important but not essential? Are they or aren't they. To add another wrinkle, why be worthy then if what you say really isn't important and the person will be fine or not fine according to the will of God. It seems that whatever we do God's will overrides everything so why do anything, why be worthy then? thank you!First, can the will of the Lord coincide with the uninspired desires of an individual? I don't see why it would be impossible for God's will to also coincide with an individual's desires. If a priesthood holder gives a blessing and speaks of his own accord - without the direction of the Holy Spirit - then what is spoken must necessarily be conditional on the God's will. All things are accomplished by God. The power is his always; a priesthood holder is simply a conduit for that authority, but is without any independent power or authority. I don't see why there should be confusion here. The Lord replied to Peter, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed unto thee, but my father which is in heaven." The Holy Spirit reveals all truth and is the source of all truth to all humanity. Each individual that receives a blessing has a process to determine truth just as any other individual does. It does not change simply because a blessing has occurred. Lastly, these last questions are excellent and of great importance. How many priesthood holders have been given the authority to stop the sun and the moon? It would be my belief that this authority is found within each holder of the Melchizedek priesthood. The Lord listened to Joshua when he spoke and the Lord will fight - will act - on behalf of the righteous. My personal belief is that God can turn all things, regardless of how bad they are, to good. His will will always be achieved. Fulfilling the hearts of the righteous individual does not thwart the will of God. The reason we seek righteousness is not for power or authority, but to unit our will with his and to stand in his grace. We will become of one mind and one heart with our God. In that situation how likely is it that our will is more often than not a reflection of his will, particularly in those situations where great blessings are demanded? 1
Duncan Posted April 8, 2014 Author Posted April 8, 2014 First, can the will of the Lord coincide with the uninspired desires of an individual? I don't see why it would be impossible for God's will to also coincide with an individual's desires. If a priesthood holder gives a blessing and speaks of his own accord - without the direction of the Holy Spirit - then what is spoken must necessarily be conditional on the God's will. All things are accomplished by God. The power is his always; a priesthood holder is simply a conduit for that authority, but is without any independent power or authority. I don't see why there should be confusion here. The Lord replied to Peter, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed unto thee, but my father which is in heaven." The Holy Spirit reveals all truth and is the source of all truth to all humanity. Each individual that receives a blessing has a process to determine truth just as any other individual does. It does not change simply because a blessing has occurred. Lastly, these last questions are excellent and of great importance. How many priesthood holders have been given the authority to stop the sun and the moon? It would be my belief that this authority is found within each holder of the Melchizedek priesthood. The Lord listened to Joshua when he spoke and the Lord will fight - will act - on behalf of the righteous. My personal belief is that God can turn all things, regardless of how bad they are, to good. His will will always be achieved. Fulfilling the hearts of the righteous individual does not thwart the will of God. The reason we seek righteousness is not for power or authority, but to unit our will with his and to stand in his grace. We will become of one mind and one heart with our God. In that situation how likely is it that our will is more often than not a reflection of his will, particularly in those situations where great blessings are demanded? Thank you! just on your first part-What if someone said something in a blessing that wasn't the will of God but the person getting the blessing believed it was? Does God now have to grant that blessing? anybody could say anything then and God has to grant it would he not?
Storm Rider Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Thank you! just on your first part-What if someone said something in a blessing that wasn't the will of God but the person getting the blessing believed it was? Does God now have to grant that blessing? anybody could say anything then and God has to grant it would he not? I think if there was a priesthood holder who daily ignored the Spirit and was unworthy of his priesthood, the ordinances he performs still have validity. For example, if this same type of individual baptized someone and was not worthy, the ordinance is still valid. It is not the perfection of the individual that is of merit, but the perfection of the priesthood that is held. Additionally, in a blessing there are two sides or two powers at work. Some are given the faith to be healed; their faith is driving influence to healing. There is also the priesthood and faith of those acting in God's stead. If they are not paying attention to the Spirit and attempt to speak their own will either in defiance of the God's will or in ignorance of it, what is the impact? First, I don't think God is bound to act by "crazy" individuals who pronounce blessings at their will. If there is a healing after such a blessing I would be more confident that their faith made them whole rather than the blessing of the man. Christ stated as much in the scriptures. In closing, there are few times when it is a single reason that causes as specific result. I think that is one of the great glories of the creation; God spoke and it came into being; it was the sole reason creation; all other influences responded to his word. More often, such as in priesthood blessings there are several powers in action: faith of the servant, faith of the receiver, and authority. Each is capable of healing individually and in concert with the other two. It is fruitless to try and limit one or the others. I do think when all three work in tandem that miracles occur and great things are accomplished. 1
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