False Doctrine At Conference

[DBMormon]

Seems worthy to stir the pot a little further

 

New Institute Manual for the New Testament <----- chapter 2

 

Matthew 1:25. The Year of Christ’s Birth

 

Concerning the year in which Jesus Christ was born, “the Church has made no official declaration on the matter” (J. Reuben Clark Jr., Our Lord of the Gospels [1954], vi). The calendar currently used throughout most of the world was created many centuries after Jesus Christ lived, and experts disagree about how to use existing historical information to calculate the year of His birth. Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote: “This is not a settled issue. Perhaps also it does not matter too much as long as we have an accepted framework of time within which to relate the actual events of [Christ’s] life” (The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:350).

 

 

The old manual said the following - 

 

After summarizing the opinions of various scholars in the matter of Christ’s birthday, Elder James E. Talmage compares their conclusions with modern revelation and then affirms: “We believe that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judea, April 6, B.C. 1.” (Jesus the Christ, p. 104.)

 

 

Seems a slight shift in what we know and don't know.... weird....  I said the same thing!

Edited January 9, 2015 by DBMormon

[Scott Lloyd]

Mother McCreedy, are you still beating this drum? The thread started last April.

[ERayR]

Seems worthy to stir the pot a little further

 

New Institute Manual for the New Testament <----- chapter 2

 

The old manual said the following - 

 

 

Seems a slight shift in what we know and don't know.... weird....  I said the same thing!

 

Are your shoes perfectly aligned in the bottom of your closet?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Seems worthy to stir the pot a little further

I had no idea that is what you are doing here. You are essentially a troll. Be gone.

[Scott Lloyd]

I had no idea that is what you are doing here. You are essentially a troll. Be gone.

[DBMormon]

I had no idea that is what you are doing here. You are essentially a troll. Be gone.

your magic spell did not work..... ooohhh aaw  ahhhahahh aaaa

 

 

I saw an action on the Church to further recognize that we simply Don't know what we thought we knew.  Thought it was pertinent to this old thread but I guess it was silly to share updated information to better inform us.  shame on me for revitalizing a thread with new info!!!

[DBMormon]

Are your shoes perfectly aligned in the bottom of your closet?

nope.... any other clinical diagnostic questions you wish to ask?

[Scott Lloyd]

your magic spell did not work..... ooohhh aaw  ahhhahahh aaaa

 

 

I saw an action on the Church to further recognize that we simply Don't know what we thought we knew.  Thought it was pertinent to this old thread but I guess it was silly to share updated information to better inform us.  shame on me for revitalizing a thread with new info!!!

A quote from 1954 is not new information -- any more than I am a newborn. (That is the year of my birth.)

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

your magic spell did not work..... ooohhh aaw  ahhhahahh aaaa

 

 

I saw an action on the Church to further recognize that we simply Don't know what we thought we knew.  Thought it was pertinent to this old thread but I guess it was silly to share updated information to better inform us.  shame on me for revitalizing a thread with new info!!!

The fact is that is all you have done since you got here. You try to stir the pot with your false doctrine and false accusations. That is why I largely ignore you. You are not serious.

[DBMormon]

Deleted 

Edited January 9, 2015 by DBMormon

[DBMormon]

Deleted 

Edited January 9, 2015 by DBMormon

[DBMormon]

Deleted 

Edited January 9, 2015 by DBMormon

[Ham Clam]

This board has been going since April with over 600 replies and 11,000 views.

Another nomination for Top 10 Discussions on Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board. 

•  

[DBMormon]

Deleted I am out of this thread.... not offended, just realize that with some there can never be any way to make ground so on this thread I am out.  Good day and god bless.

Edited January 9, 2015 by DBMormon

[stemelbow]

Sheesh DBMormon, act like you've been there before. No need to boast about receiving 1,000 emails and linking podcasts. Makes ya sound defensive and small.

U big bro. I think I received my first 1,000 email in 1997 or something, and I was proud of that. But when I started telling the world about it, I realized how naïve I came off.

[DBMormon]

Sheesh DBMormon, act like you've been there before. No need to boast about receiving 1,000 emails and linking podcasts. Makes ya sound defensive and small.

U big bro. I think I received my first 1,000 email in 1997 or something, and I was proud of that. But when I started telling the world about it, I realized how naïve I came off.

I was being defensive because people see me here and they are clueless.  Thanks for making your point.  I deleted it and will simply abstain from this thread.

[stemelbow]

I was being defensive because people see me here and they are clueless.  Thanks for making your point.  I deleted it and will simply abstain from this thread.

I was really just joking--trying to lighten the mood. I don't mind you being defensive. You have that right. We gotsta do it sometimes.

[HappyJackWagon]

Personally I like this thread because it illustrates the sanctimony of people upholding the "doctrine" that isn't really doctrine. I've suggested at church that we don't really know when Christ was born and immediately I get Bednar's quote thrown in my face as if it is definitive. It's not. That's the only point of this thread as far as I can tell. We act like there is only one right way to think about things when in fact there are multiple ways. We act like we have all the answers when most of the answers are based on assumptions.

 

Bottom line: The church doesn't claim to know the exact day Christ was born so everyone should stop acting like the church has spoken the doctrine and the case is settled. It's not.

[DBMormon]

I was really just joking--trying to lighten the mood. I don't mind you being defensive. You have that right. We gotsta do it sometimes.

understood, but my anger was getting the best of me.

[stemelbow]

understood, but my anger was getting the best of me.

Go and sin no more, my friend.

[stemelbow]

Personally I like this thread because it illustrates the sanctimony of people upholding the "doctrine" that isn't really doctrine. I've suggested at church that we don't really know when Christ was born and immediately I get Bednar's quote thrown in my face as if it is definitive. It's not. That's the only point of this thread as far as I can tell. We act like there is only one right way to think about things when in fact there are multiple ways. We act like we have all the answers when most of the answers are based on assumptions.

 

Bottom line: The church doesn't claim to know the exact day Christ was born so everyone should stop acting like the church has spoken the doctrine and the case is settled. It's not.

I agree. It was a delightful topic, worth it's 34 pages. Sad, 'cause I feel like if I said nothing DBMormon would have left his posts and would perhaps have offered some more things to consider.

My kids are right...I ruin everything.

[DBMormon]

I agree. It was a delightful topic, worth it's 34 pages. Sad, 'cause I feel like if I said nothing DBMormon would have left his posts and would perhaps have offered some more things to consider.

My kids are right...I ruin everything.

if you want to see those links they are here

[stemelbow]

if you want to see those links they are here

Thanks. You may not realize it, but I've listened to some of your podcasts and find myself agreeing with many of your posts that appear on this board. On top of that, as I recall, you live Ohio, where, it just so happens, my brother went to school (Ohio State), his wife is from (outside of Columbus) and my sister and her husband and kids lived for a good ten years (Cleveland area). If my siblings wouldn't have lived there I probably would have never visited. well maybe. But when I did, it was always enjoyable.

[DBMormon]

Thanks. You may not realize it, but I've listened to some of your podcasts and find myself agreeing with many of your posts that appear on this board. On top of that, as I recall, you live Ohio, where, it just so happens, my brother went to school (Ohio State), his wife is from (outside of Columbus) and my sister and her husband and kids lived for a good ten years (Cleveland area). If my siblings wouldn't have lived there I probably would have never visited. well maybe. But when I did, it was always enjoyable.

Thanks Stemelbow, I appreciate the feedback and acknowledgement that you have heard and agree with at least some to much of what I say!

[carbon dioxide]

From the Fairmormon entry: "However, at least two Presidents of the Church—Harold B. Lee and Spencer W Kimball—have affirmed that April 6th is the actual birth date of the Savior as well as the anniversary of the organization of the Church." Harold B. Lee, "Strengthen the Stakes of Zion," Ensign (July 1973), 2. Spencer W. Kimball, "Remarks and Dedication of the Fayette, New York, Buildings," Ensign (May 1980), 54 I'll take a two Prophets (mouth of two witnesses). And now a third "Prophet". So we have three witnesses.

Orson Pratt believed it was on April 11th.  I give the odds of Jesus being born on April 6th to be 1 in 365.  Is there any evidence of anyone before B.H. Roberts or James Talmage advocating this date?  At the end of the day, does it matter whether he was born on April 6th or the 11th or in March or December? 

Edited January 10, 2015 by carbon dioxide