Why Aren't Women Included

[Storm Rider]

I suggested to our ward council that before the father brings the baby to the front for the name/blessing, he ask the parents to stand

and present them to the ward with the newest member of the family. In this way, the father and mother are honored, recognized,

and celebrated, and then the father (who up to this point has had a very minor role in creating the child), gets to do something special

that is reserved for him. Besides, he didn't get to go to all the parties and baby showers, so he should have his moment, too.

 

Surprisingly, the sisters were not in favor, but I think we should do it anyway.

 

Careful. When that shoe goes on the other foot everything breaks down. If we are going to have a victim we demand that they must be a victim at all times and in all places. There will not be any counting of blessings, any realistic review of who does what and who is on stage. There must be one spotlight and it must remain on the victim at all times.  Have you lost your mind?  

[Calm]

Careful. When that shoe goes on the other foot everything breaks down. If we are going to have a victim we demand that they must be a victim at all times and in all places. There will not be any counting of blessings, any realistic review of who does what and who is on stage. There must be one spotlight and it must remain on the victim at all times.  Have you lost your mind?

Who is the victim in Bernand's suggestion demanding the spotlight?

[Storm Rider]

Who is the victim in Bernand's suggestion demanding the spotlight?

 

Good Morning Cal, I am in a particularly poor mood this morning and far too sarcastic for my own good.  Much of this issue of women not being included shows up for me as more of a lack of recognition of the roles in how male and female relationships generally function.  There are times when a father acts on behalf of the couple - giving a blessing - at other times a mother acts on behalf of the couple.  I see them as completely complimentary to one another.

 

In this situation I thought Bernard gave a good suggestion to go the extra mile so that a mother would not be left out.  When a child is to be blessed acknowledge both mother and father at the same time.  My knee-jerk reaction was to assume that some women had a problem that a father would give a father's blessing in front of the ward.  

 

I have pretty much had my fill of this type of thinking. It is just so short-sighted.  When I see LDS women join in with society in a pursuit of equality - an equality that is twisted and lacking in any understanding of roles, family stability, etc., it is worrying.  

 

Most of all, it is just me being an old crank and should take a break away from reading these types of threads on here.  

[Calm]

Good Morning Cal, I am in a particularly poor mood this morning and far too sarcastic for my own good.  Much of this issue of women not being included shows up for me as more of a lack of recognition of the roles in how male and female relationships generally function.  There are times when a father acts on behalf of the couple - giving a blessing - at other times a mother acts on behalf of the couple.  I see them as completely complimentary to one another.

 

In this situation I thought Bernard gave a good suggestion to go the extra mile so that a mother would not be left out.  When a child is to be blessed acknowledge both mother and father at the same time.  My knee-jerk reaction was to assume that some women had a problem that a father would give a father's blessing in front of the ward.  

It seems to me if the sisters were disagreeing with changing the process, they were likely quite satisfied with it.

 

I can easily understand why a mother whose husband cannot give the blessing might prefer to be able to give it herself rather than someone else, I can also see how some women would like to be by the side of their husband while he is experiencing this wonderful blessing perhaps because they see it as a more intimate experience and feel their relationship would benefit from a greater sense of closeness during this time.  I also get how many women prefer the chance for their husband to stand with his brothers symbolically introducing the child to the ward family and the extended family of the Church because I am one of those and it sounded to me like the sisters in Bernard's ward like it as well, as a chance for their husband to receive recognition as a father…something that is not done as much in our church as motherhood save through ritual expression imo.

Edited March 29, 2014 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

That's how I always looked at it, give men the opportunity to recieve recognition. But the more time I dwell on it I change with any disagreement that woman have, like perhaps the idea to let them hold their baby during it. Does it specify that this isn't allowed in the Church handbook?

[Storm Rider]

It seems to me if the sisters were disagreeing with changing the process, they were likely quite satisfied with it.

 

I can easily understand why a mother whose husband cannot give the blessing might prefer to be able to give it herself rather than someone else, I can also see how some women would like to be by the side of their husband while he is experiencing this wonderful blessing perhaps because they see it as a more intimate experience and feel their relationship would benefit from a greater sense of closeness during this time.  I also get how many women prefer the chance for their husband to stand with his brothers symbolically introducing the child to the ward family and the extended family of the Church because I am one of those and it sounded to me like the sisters in Bernard's ward like it as well, as a chance for their husband to receive recognition as a father…something that is not done as much in our church as motherhood save through ritual expression imo.

 

In a family there are so many opportunities for a mother to have special times with their children.  Is is appropriate for a father to have any?  If a father is really a redundant add on to a mother and her children; what role or need is there for a father?  

 

I see a great number of young men today that have forgone or significantly delayed marriage.  I suspect the reasons for this choice are complex, but amongst the reasons is a perception that fathers men, have no place and have no perceived value.  Society needs to be cognizant of what has gone on to belittle little boys and build up little girls.  That has carried on to building up women and tearing down men.  

 

How often have I heard the inane statement from Church leaders, "Women are just so much more spiritual than men".  As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and they take take that silliness down the road and peddle it those more ignorant than I am.  I see a single unit that only exists between and husband and wife; they hold all things in common, including the priesthood.  Both have roles to play and both are valued; neither should be stepping all over the other.  

[Storm Rider]

That's how I always looked at it, give men the opportunity to recieve recognition. But the more time I dwell on it I change with any disagreement that woman have, like perhaps the idea to let them hold their baby during it. Does it specify that this isn't allowed in the Church handbook?

 

That is more policy; who holds the child has no impact on a blessing.  

[BCSpace]

but it seems to me that we are still in the dark ages concerning equality in the church. What do you think?

 

I disagree completely I think there are always things we can do better, but this is more a reflection on the sexes not understanding each other (a problem from the beginning of time) rather than anything sexist about the Church itself.

 

If, as Sister Okazaki says, women feel a lack of self worth etc., I'd say it's far more a function of the influence of modern feminism which is contrary to the teachings of truly great 'feminists' such as Jesus Christ.