Controlling Thoughts...failure / Success?

[thatjimguy]

What can you all tell me about your personal successes and failures when it comes to controlling your thoughts?

 

Why do you succeed, why do you fail, does it feel impossible, do the bad thoughts ever really go away?

 

 

 

[Kenngo1969]

It's hard to give a very specific answer to a general question, so here are some brief, general thoughts in response.  1.  Although we are eternal beings, we currently have imperfect, mortal tabernacles here on earth; and 2.  We live in a fallen world.  

 

Because our spirits are housed in imperfect, mortal, fallible tabernacles here on earth, we're subject to all sorts of vicissitudes of, for example, biochemistry, and psychiatric diagnoses, and the efforts of an Adversary who "seeketh that all men might be miserable, like unto himself."  I do not, for a minute, think that people who suffer because of those things (Yours Truly included) "brought it upon themselves": I think such conditions are one of Satan's best tools for getting us to think like he wants us to think, because they don't necessarily involve a conscious decision to think like those mortal conditions often make us think.  That's where the "pains and sicknesses" part of the Atonement mentioned in Alma 7 comes in: as much as we might want to point fingers at each other and say, "He did [x], [y], and [z]" (which are all not such good things), the Lord's response will be, "Well, did you know anything about the burdens he was carrying at the time ... ?"  

 

Because we live in a fallen world, thoughts of various kinds that we don't wish to entertain are likely to come, unbidden and out-of-the-blue, into our heads.  But thoughts are like birds; they tend to land ... "wherever" ... but just because they land in our heads doesn't mean we have to let them nest there. My dear Auntie (one of them, anyway; they're all dear to me!) once told me a story of a lady who didn't have a lot of experience in Primary (and probably not in the Church) who was asked to teach Sunbeams (of all classes! ) about repentance (of all subjects! ) one week.  In the class, she asks, "Does anyone know what repentance is?"  And a little three-year-old Sunbeam says, "It means we can twy agin."  That's really all repentance ... and the atonement, and the sacrament ... is: it means we can pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and "twy agin."  (As much as we tend to complicate living the Gospel, it really is so simply beautiful and beautifully simple that even a young child can understand it. )

 

It's worth pondering, too, whether we want to have "a primary residence in Zion, while still maintaining a summer cottage in Babylon."  Most of us are guilty of attempting to steal away (for just a brief visit!) to our summer cottages in Babylon.  How do we, and I'm as guilty of this as anyone, spend our Sabbath?  While it's a perfect opportunity to spend a whole day in Zion, sometimes we even want to spend (at least part of) that day ... of all days ... in Babylon.  (On the other hand, after having spent a sublime Sabbath in Zion, I've also experienced the dread of having to face the worldly demands and altogether much more ordinary pursuits of a manic Monday in Babylon ... [sigh!] )

 

Surely, Satan has "bruised my heel" countless times; I hope, eventually and at length, to "come off, conqueror" and to be able to "crush his head," but it probably won't happen (at least, not completely) in this life.  I hope and believe that there's value in the struggle: it's one thing to struggle, fail, and struggle some more; and it's another thing entirely to struggle, fail, and give up the struggle.  I think Satan wants both of those kinds of people to believe they're in the same boat, but I don't think they are. There are plenty of people in the world who want to abandon God so they can be comfortable with sin, and there are comparatively fewer people in the world who want to abandon sin so they can be comfortable with God.  Fortunately, it's not just what we do that counts, but also the thoughts and intents of our hearts. As Elder Jeffrey R. Holland said (paraphrasing), "Imperfect, fallible, mortal beings are all God has ever had to work with.  That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it."

 

Humans have an annoying habit of comparing our worst to everyone else's best ... especially when we only see the people to whom we are comparing ourselves at Church.  Where else would you expect that it's more likely that people would be on their best behavior and trying to put their best foot forward?!  But, as I'm fond of saying, the Church isn't a resort for the spiritually well; it's a hospital for the spiritually sick.  All of us are spiritually sick to one degree or another.  Even if we have no major problems and our lives are going swimmingly (How would it be?!!! ) we're still "spiritually dead" because we're separated from God here in mortality.  One of my favorite lines from the Church production, The Prodigal Son is when Jim's wife, Joanne, tells him, "None of us can make it halfway through this life, or into the next, without the Savior."  You're probably not a lot different than most of us, even if you think you are. I also read this thought on another board that perhaps is appropos to this discussion: "I don't know how anyone can completely succeed at their religion, unless all it requires is breathing."   My $0.02.  I wish you well. 

Edited March 15, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[changed]

I find the best way to control thoughts is to stay very very busy.  "'An idle mind is the devil's workshop"

[Garden Girl]

  

 

It's worth pondering, too, whether we want to have "a primary residence in Zion, while still maintaining a summer cottage in Babylon."  Most of us are guilty of attempting to steal away (for just a brief visit!) to our summer cottages in Babylon.  How do we, and I'm as guilty of this as anyone, spend our Sabbath?  While it's a perfect opportunity to spend a whole day in Zion, sometimes we even want to spend (at least part of) that day ... of all days ... in Babylon.  (On the other hand, after having spent a sublime Sabbath in Zion, I've also experienced the dread of having to face the worldly demands and altogether much more ordinary pursuits of a manic Monday in Babylon ... [sigh!] ) 

 

This reminded me of when I was an ordinance worker every Friday in the Portland OR temple... I would begin Thursday night by reading some scripture, then taking a luxurious shower and shampoo, then listening to some uplifting music etc.  "Preparing" myself physically and mentally for a wonderful day in the House of the Lord... On Friday morning I'd get ready and leave the house for the 2 hour drive into Portland through some beautiful country.  I did some of my best praying on those drives...

Upon entering the temple I would give an actual sigh and mentally leave the outside world behind.  I would spend the five hours of my shift serving my sisters, immersed in the beauty of the ordinances. 

When I finally left the temple to return home, as I went through the doors I would actually get the very real feeling that I was walking out into Babylon... back into the "world"... Sigh...

 

GG

[Kenngo1969]

This reminded me of when I was an ordinance worker every Friday in the Portland OR temple... I would begin Thursday night by reading some scripture, then taking a luxurious shower and shampoo, then listening to some uplifting music etc.  "Preparing" myself physically and mentally for a wonderful day in the House of the Lord... On Friday morning I'd get ready and leave the house for the 2 hour drive into Portland through some beautiful country.  I did some of my best praying on those drives...

Upon entering the temple I would give an actual sigh and mentally leave the outside world behind.  I would spend the five hours of my shift serving my sisters, immersed in the beauty of the ordinances. 

When I finally left the temple to return home, as I went through the doors I would actually get the very real feeling that I was walking out into Babylon... back into the "world"... Sigh...

 

GG

It's good we can tell the difference between the two.  A lot of people can't.

[Kevin Christensen]

Try 12 Step Recovery. Persistent bad thoughts may be a symptom of addiction, rather than a stand-alone problem. If they are a symptom, that means the presence of something that is "cunning, baffling, and powerful" that lives in your head. Properly done, 12 Step recovery heals the damage physiological damage (enlarged dopamine receptors, and shrinkage in the cerebral cortext associated with weighing costs and benefits, which results in craving plus impeded judgment). Recovery also changes the lifestyle to ensure that the damage does not return. It takes time, a couple of years, and requires the consistent implimentation of pro-active techniques, changing your responses to stress, and loneliness and frustation, rather than just gritting your teeth and trying to suppress real hard. For a set of working, practical techniques, purchase 30 Days to Hope and Freedom from Sexual Addiction by Milton Magness and/or Facing the Shadow by Patrick Carnes.

When the men I work with complain about obsessive thoughts, I recommend that they think in terms of a stage with a revolving door. A thought comes on, and you, with the minimal effort, nudge it off stage, back out the revolving door, while you continue what you are doing. Do not think in terms of a wrestling match, grapping with the thought, and trying to pin it to the mat. Wrestling is a maximal effort situation. Nudging while focused elsewhere involves minimal effort.

Part of recovery is getting rid of secrets and shame, which means finding someone that you can trust to talk with when you have problem. I once got a phone call from someone who said he'd just put a DVD in his player. "What should I do?" he asked. I commended him for calling for help, asked whether it was a rental or a purchase. Purchase, he said. Okay, I said. Take it out and break it, and throw the broken pieces away. He did so. I think that call was a key moment for him. I think it was the first time he had actually asked for help, rather than trying to fight through on his own. I didn't see him for a year, and when I did, he had a year of sobriety, and seemed much happier and more confident.

Of course, modern society has put out all sorts of enticements towards bad thoughts, and large sectors of the population are enablers or themselves snared to the point that the situation seems completely natural, the way life is, the way guys are if they aren't repressed and uptight. So serious decisions about lifestyle and personal environment matter. You can think about bad thoughts in terms of a reversed parable of the sower. What kind of soil do you present to the seeds that come your way? Do you seek them out, or nurture them, or, do you present an unreceptive surface, and hostile environment?

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[mfbukowski]

Absolutely brilliant Kevin.

The key is observing your incoming thoughts and not resenting them while deciding which to allow onto the stage. You see them come in the door and just send them right out again. For some reason I picture myself sorting hay with a pitchfork. Some goes in the wagon and some gets tossed the other way.

But there needs to be a level of mental detachment which requires practice in observing your thoughts without being instantly absorbed by them.

I have found meditation techniques very useful in learning to observe your thoughts without allowing them onto the stage.

If one gets good enough at it, one can learn how to have lucid dreams, which become very important in learning mental detachment and therefore control.

[jaxenro]

When the men I work with complain about obsessive thoughts, I recommend that they think in terms of a stage with a revolving door. A thought comes on, and you, with the minimal effort, nudge it off stage, back out the revolving door, while you continue what you are doing. Do not think in terms of a wrestling match, grapping with the thought, and trying to pin it to the mat. Wrestling is a maximal effort situation. Nudging while focused elsewhere involves minimal effort.

PA

I remember watching clips of a really early Rolling Stones concert. The bouncers didn't try to stop the girls rushing the stage they just passed them to others that fed them off the back and back into he audience. Sometimes trying to fight off a bad thought causes us to dwell on it but passing it out the back, so to speak, dismisses it

[Bikeemikey]

What can you all tell me about your personal successes and failures when it comes to controlling your thoughts?

Why do you succeed, why do you fail, does it feel impossible, do the bad thoughts ever really go away?

I gave up along time ago... I settled for simply controlling other people's thoughts.

[cdowis]

I have found something that has been helpful.  I engage myself in a hobby which involves intensively learning something new such as a new language.  I practice my language in my mind while I am idle.  Right now I am working on chess, working on positions, board awareness, etc.

[cdowis]

Perhaps a brain implant would be helpful.

 

 

What would you give for a retinal chip that let you see in the dark or for a next-generation cochlear implant that let you hear any conversation in a noisy restaurant, no matter how loud? Or for a memory chip, wired directly into your brain's hippocampus, that gave you perfect recall of everything you read? Or for an implanted interface with the Internet that automatically translated a clearly articulated silent thought ("the French sun king") into an online search that digested the relevant Wikipedia page and projected a summary directly into your brain?

Science fiction? Perhaps not for very much longer. Brain implants today are where laser eye surgery was several decades ago. They are not risk-free and make sense only for a narrowly defined set of patients—but they are a sign of things to come.

Unlike pacemakers, dental crowns or implantable insulin pumps, neuroprosthetics—devices that restore or supplement the mind's capacities with electronics inserted directly into the nervous system—change how we perceive the world and move through it. For better or worse, these devices become part of who we are.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579435592981780528?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsFifth&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304914904579435592981780528.html%3Fmod%3DWSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsFifth

[Bikeemikey]

Perhaps a brain implant would be helpful.

Sign me up.

Bet ya gods got one.

[thesometimesaint]

Thoughts are like actors on the stage of our minds. They come and go in due time. But that doesn't mean we have to give them a curtain call.