CMZ Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Wholeness-Personal-Handbook-Thriving/dp/1587830299/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390977450&sr=1-1&keywords=carol+tuttle+remembering+wholeness I am wondering if anyone has any familiarity with this book. I had it mentioned to me by a good friend because of a particular thing in it. But when I looked at it on Amazon some customer reviews pointed out what are serious problems with the book (no review I've seen so far had any problem with the facet of the book my friend was referring to). Here's the best example: In several instances in the book, she includes stories wherein people claimed to have made "deals" in the pre-Earth life to sexually abuse and harm each other. The most salient example of this idea she is a story of a woman who was sexually abused by her father. The woman had not been terribly close with her father due to the abuse. However, as her father lay dying, she found the stregnth [sic] to forgive him. With Carol's guidance, the abuse victim had a dream in which she saw her and her father in the pre-Earth life. In the scene, she is begging her father to sexually abuse her on Earth so that she can learn how to "forgive" while she is here. Her father reluctantly agreed to sexually abuse his own daughter in the pre-Earth life. This and numerous examples similar to it are how Carol suggests that people agreed to harm and sexually abuse one another before they came to Earth. Now, I know my doctrine fairly well, but I'm wondering if anyone can really think something like that can really happen. Agreeing to abuse and be abused? Uh, I don't think so. My best guess, assuming the dream actually occurred, and then maybe assuming it was actually given by the Spirit, is that it was just something to help the victim at that point in time but not an accurate representation of an event from pre-Earth life? I think with abuse sometimes the victim, with a healthy dose of Stockholm syndrome ("When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be a threat." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome), will do anything they can to make sense of what they went through. But I'm afraid the book is really getting people to believe they agreed in premortality to have an abuser/victim relationship with each other.
Traela Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Wow. That seems like the ultimate "blame the victim" scenario. "It's not my fault I abused my kid. She literally asked me to do it." 1
Blah Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 A new twist on the "Hey, she was asking for it" excuse. This woman disgusts me.
bluebell Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Of course people did not agree to do sinful things to other people in the pre-existence. That is so messed up that the author is teaching that to people. 1
The Nehor Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 This is ridiculous. While I have no problem accepting that God (or even we ourselves) may have had some foreknowledge of what we would face this creates the idea that some sins are excusable because they were requested. Not a chance. The evil fulfill God's plan by giving us trials and the righteous fulfill God's plan by easing the burdens of others and doing good. Both help in God's plan. However if you do Christ's work you get Christ's reward. If you do the devil's work you get the devil's reward. I am also wary of, "With Carol's guidance, the abuse victim had a dream...." Do revelations really need coaching? 1
Calm Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndromehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered_memory_therapy"An inquiry by the Australian government into the practice found little support for or use of memory recovery therapies among health professionals, and warned that professionals had to be trained to avoid the creation of false memories."Looking at the author's training appears to be in unaccredited alternative methods, I would be wary of assuming she's had sufficient training to avoid such...especially given what appears to be a great dependence on unusual memories in her theory."A review article on potentially harmful therapies listed RMT as a treatment that will probably produce harm in some who receive it.[21] Richard Ofshe, a member of the advisory board to the FMSF, describes the practice of "recovering" memories as fraudulent and dangerous.[22]"Granted, it is wiki...only posting as evidence that in this area extreme caution should be taken for a number of reasons. Edited January 29, 2014 by calmoriah
Calm Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I can see how believing there is a purpose to one's suffering can be helpful...I have doubts about the long term effects of believing one specifically asked to be abused even for the benefit of learning to be a better person...and really have doubts about the idea that it would somehow be a good thing to push someone else to do something that might corrupt their soul, damage them if not for eternity, but for mortality for one's own personal benefit.There is no way the scenario that the father became a sexual abuser to help his daughter works out to be a good thing from any perspective. Besides the one mentioned already, would we respect someone who begged another to be crippled or mentally deficient in mortality so that they could learn to be more loving? Wouldn't we instead look on that as the upmost selfishness? If the father had begged the daughter to allow him to abuse her so he could learn better how to repent, would anyone see that as a sane request? Or that such would even have the desired result? Where is the guarantee that the daughter would forgive him....and if she didn't, here is a horror that now exists for no purpose and results in two people at the least in sinning (the father for the abuse, the daughter in refusing to sin).How can that woman not come to look on herself with shame that she demanded that her father become a monster so that she would have a better life? Where was her love and concern for him in that scenario?How can no one look at the world and realize we have plenty to practice our forgiveness on, we don't need to go around intentionally creating tragedies.This reminds me of the rationale of a parent killing his children so that they will be guaranteed the Celestial Kingdom...as if his children will be thankful for him damning himself by depriving them of their agency. Edited January 29, 2014 by calmoriah 2
Kenngo1969 Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I have no familiarity with this book nor did I click on your link, because I have no desire to investigate this matter further. As a general proposition, I believe in God's command that we forgive everyone who wrongs us. However, I believe this woman's point of view is dangerous. More than enough people in the world have more than enough undeserved guilt. She doesn't need to add to the guilt of those who, while they are not to blame in any way, feel they are responsible for the abuse they have suffered. Yet, from what little I can gather from what you've posted here, it appears that this, albeit unwittingly, is exactly what she's doing. More than a few abuse victims are apt to say to themselves, "Great! Not only do I feel responsible for what happened to me, I now have an extra burden of guilt because I can't forgive the person who actually is responsible!" That's the last thing any abuse victim needs. My take? (1) In many cases, the forgiveness process will have to extend beyond the veil; people who are the victims of such heinous acts will simply have to do the best they can in this life to comply with this commandment; and (2) Forgiveness and trust are two completely different things. Forgiveness may be free in the sense that the one wronged is required to extend it, but trust is not. Just because a person wronged forgives a perpetrator doesn't mean s/he has to trust that pepetrator. Edited January 29, 2014 by Kenngo1969
CMZ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 I am also wary of, "With Carol's guidance, the abuse victim had a dream...." Do revelations really need coaching? Yes, it sounds like priestcraft. And she seems to tailor it all so that it's easier to digest than an actual scriptural study. Then lifelong members whose only knowledge comes from passed-down and passed-along hearsay gobble up her stuff. The book was from a few years ago. Hopefully she has let go of this crazy idea by now.
CMZ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 I have no familiarity with this book nor did I click on your link, because I have no desire to investigate this matter further. That's fine. You're not obligated to read it. It's probably better that people don't. I was just aghast last night when I found out about the book and how many positive reviews it was getting. The other problem with it that some reviewers were mentioning was that it was teaching what The Secret taught: that if you think positively then positive things will happen to you; if you think negatively then bad things will happen to you. Some people were correct in pointing out the falsity of that proposition (although nobody was saying to think negatively rather than positively) but many more talked about how wonderful it was.
Calm Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) She still has her websites so unlikely she's changed her mind.I find a lot of alternative healing worthwhile. An acupuncturist had remarkable success with my neuralgia and tinnitus and some nutritionalists have helped a great deal as well. I never discount alternative just because it is different. There are red flags (such as practices that claim no right or wrong) and for me, these kinds of dreams and memories are a bright screaming firehouse red alarm. Edited January 30, 2014 by calmoriah
CMZ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 She still has her websites so unlikely she's changed her mind.I find a lot of alternative healing worthwhile. An acupuncturist had remarkable success with my neuralgia and tinnitus and some nutritionalists have helped a great deal as well. I never discount alternative just because it is different. There are red flags (such as practices that claim no right or wrong) and for me, these kinds of dreams and memories are a bright screaming firehouse red alarm. Fortunately I never spoke out against alternative healing. I'm more likely to speak out against big pharma's agenda of having a planet-full of people reliant on their "medicine" forever (yes, some of said medicine is perfectly fine). I think people can do hypnosis, acupuncture, whatever, but just have to make sure they're not swallowing giant doctrinal errors in the process (assuming such is ever introduced into the process).
Calm Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 "one specifically asked to be abused even for the benefit of learning to be a better person"The more I think about this idea, the more it sounds like a person that so needs to feel in control of her life it is easier to imagine herself begging for abuse rather being a helpless child, controlled by her father's perverted instincts where even he wasn't in control. But that just feeds the need to control, which can develop into a disorder itself.I hope this woman's family realized what was going on and got her some real help.
Calm Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Fortunately I never spoke out against alternative healing. I'm more likely to speak out against big pharma's agenda of having a planet-full of people reliant on their "medicine" forever (yes, some of said medicine is perfectly fine). I think people can do hypnosis, acupuncture, whatever, but just have to make sure they're not swallowing giant doctrinal errors in the process (assuming such is ever introduced into the process).I just didn't want people to think I was trashing her because I didn't approve of alternative healing when I love many aspects of it and so wish I lived in the same town as that acupuncturist.
Calm Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Yes, it sounds like priestcraft. And she seems to tailor it all so that it's easier to digest than an actual scriptural study. Then lifelong members whose only knowledge comes from passed-down and passed-along hearsay gobble up her stuff. The book was from a few years ago. Hopefully she has let go of this crazy idea by now.So when doing a search on her name a heading pops up in her site's link "manifest more money".... Another glowing in the dark red flag.
CMZ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 So when doing a search on her name a heading pops up in her site's link "manifest more money".... Another glowing in the dark red flag. Apparently it's the prosperity gospel and the law of attraction wrapped up in a seeming veneer of Mormon-ness. I think it's a case of someone who means well and has a good talent for working with people but doesn't check themselves to make sure they're not diving off any deep ends.
Calm Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 It seems a little here and a little there and a lot more of this and let's pour it in a pot...ideas from all over that appeal to her.
slamarwi Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 That which is good comes from God... Not buying the "she wanted it" defense. The concept and book are twisted. SLW
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Sometimes I hate my conscience. I could be such a good snake-oil salesman writing garbage like this.
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