danielwoods Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 What view is that? The verse states that there is no gender to God. "There is no male or female" The LDS position is largely based on gender, now and in heaven. 1
jkwilliams Posted November 7, 2013 Author Posted November 7, 2013 The verse states that there is no gender to God. "There is no male or female" The LDS position is largely based on gender, now and in heaven. I was asking how members of the LDS church work this out, so yes, it assumes an LDS position. I'm not a believing Mormon, but I think your reading of that scripture is a bit narrow.
thesometimesaint Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 The verse states that there is no gender to God. "There is no male or female" The LDS position is largely based on gender, now and in heaven. CFR
danielwoods Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 CFR I'm unclear on what you are asking for?
danielwoods Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 I was asking how members of the LDS church work this out, so yes, it assumes an LDS position.I'm not a believing Mormon, but I think your reading of that scripture is a bit narrow. Fair enough.
wenglund Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 The verse states that there is no gender to God. "There is no male or female" The verse is in reference to people who have been baptized unto Christ. Are you suggesting that when people are baptized they literally become castrated? Thanks, -Wade Englund-
thesometimesaint Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 I'm unclear on what you are asking for? Where in the Bible does it say there no males or females? Genesis 1:27 27 So God created man in his own aimage, in the image of God created he him; male and bfemale created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be afruitful, and bmultiply, and creplenish the dearth, and subdue it: and have edominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 ¶And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for ameat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for ameat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very agood.
danielwoods Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 The verse is in reference to people who have been baptized unto Christ. Are you suggesting that when people are baptized they literally become castrated? Thanks, -Wade Englund- Nope. Didn't say that. Where in the Bible does it say there no males or females? Genesis 1:27 27 So God created man in his own aimage, in the image of God created he him; male and bfemale created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be afruitful, and bmultiply, and creplenish the dearth, and subdue it: and have edominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 ¶And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for ameat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for ameat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very agood. I didn't say there were no males or females. What I did was quote Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
thesometimesaint Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 The verse states that there is no gender to God. "There is no male or female" The LDS position is largely based on gender, now and in heaven. Did you not post this?
EllenMaksoud Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) The verse is in reference to people who have been baptized unto Christ. Are you suggesting that when people are baptized they literally become castrated? Thanks, -Wade Englund-Figurative or literal castration, this is beginning to sound a bit like some discussions I used to hear about transubstantiation. It is obvious that humans come in at least two genders; according to the Germans there are three genders, and according to advanced science if we want to get picky, gender is a continuum. Hmm Genesis 5:2 says "He created them male and female ..." That's been at the very least,45,000 years, and probably closer to 2.2 million years. Of the genes. the X or "female" chromosome is the more stable one and the Y is more variant or unstable. It is not hard to find reference to scientists who show that the Y chromosome is disappearing and will be gone, and we will all be ladies, and not "big strong males" in a millennia or so. Perhaps Heavenly Father created us with equal X and Y chromosomes, and perhaps the idea that sin entered into the world caused this disintegration? I am going to postulate that perhaps this disintegration of the Y chromosome could follow an exponential function and will happen the day after tomorrow. Edited November 7, 2013 by EllenMaksoud
Scott Lloyd Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Dunno about anyone else, but personally I think it just shows that the Proclamation is only a proclamation, and not some capital-R Revelation. I think we've treated it with more reverence than we should.I draw just the opposite conclusion. To me, the proclamation is inspired, and it is meant to resolve questions in our minds. Such instances as are presented here are clearly congenital deformities. They should not be regarded as eternal conditions. They will be corrected in the resurrection. I believe it will be the same with SSA.
wenglund Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Nope. Didn't say that. What, exactly, are you saying? What do you interpret the scripture meant by "There is no male or female"? Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited November 7, 2013 by wenglund
danielwoods Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Did you not post this? Yes it was a quote of Galatians 3 What, exactly, are you saying? What do you interpret the scripture meant by "There is no male or female"? Thanks, -Wade Englund- I was just curious how the LDS interpret it. I take it for what it says. Meaning that, to God, gender, slave or free (societal standing) and race are irrelevant. All that matters is if we are in Christ or not.
jkwilliams Posted November 7, 2013 Author Posted November 7, 2013 Yes it was a quote of Galatians 3 I was just curious how the LDS interpret it. I take it for what it says. Meaning that, to God, gender, slave or free (societal standing) and race are irrelevant. All that matters is if we are in Christ or not. That's how I've always read it, but I don't think it means we'll all be genderless.
Calm Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Yes it was a quote of Galatians 3 I was just curious how the LDS interpret it. I take it for what it says. Meaning that, to God, gender, slave or free (societal standing) and race are irrelevant. All that matters is if we are in Christ or not. That gender does not matter in regards to faithfulness and commitment to Christ does not imply the same things as stating that gender does not exist. So how are you intending your comment "there is no gender to God" mean to reflect on the LDS belief that gender is eternal? Even if something is not relevant to whether or not someone is in Christ or not, why would such affect the existence of such an attribute? Hair colour has no bearing on whether one is in Christ or not, but variation in hair colour still exists. If one assumes that human beings have existed in some fashion eternally and that gender is part of that existence, how does your interpretation of "there is no gender to God" impact the LDS position on eternal gender? Edited November 7, 2013 by calmoriah
danielwoods Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 That gender does not matter in regards to faithfulness and commitment to Christ does not imply the same things as stating that gender does not exist. So how are you intending your comment "there is no gender to God" mean to reflect on the LDS belief that gender is eternal? Even if something is not relevant to whether or not someone is in Christ or not, why would such affect the existence of such an attribute? Hair colour has no bearing on whether one is in Christ or not, but variation in hair colour still exists. If one assumes that human beings have existed in some fashion eternally and that gender is part of that existence, how does your interpretation of "there is no gender to God" impact the LDS position on eternal gender? From my understanding, there are things that only men can do (hold a priesthood as an example). Further, the LDS make claims to eternal marriages, which would be effected by such a verse. Or maybe not?
Stone holm Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Nope. Didn't say that. I didn't say there were no males or females. What I did was quote Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.That phrase is just another way of saying God is no respecter of persons, trying to go further with it becomes absurd 1
Lachoneus Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Nephi taught the same thing. "He inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile." (2 Ne. 26:33.)
Calm Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) From my understanding, there are things that only men can do (hold a priesthood as an example). Further, the LDS make claims to eternal marriages, which would be effected by such a verse. Or maybe not? Are you saying that in your faith, marriage is not affected by gender at all whether or not it is eternal marriage or for mortality only? Women are promised to be queens and priestesses as men are to be kings and priests. Exactly what that means is unknown for both. Edited November 8, 2013 by calmoriah 1
Flyonthewall Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 How would the passage from Galatians jibe with 1 Corinthians 11:11? "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." 1
danielwoods Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Are you saying that in your faith, marriage is not affected by gender at all whether or not it is eternal marriage or for mortality only? Women are promised to be queens and priestesses as men are to be kings and priests. Exactly what that means is unknown for both. So, it appears that the LDS ignore the aspect of "there is no male nor female" of this verse. For me marriage is temporary, and eternal marriage is to Christ alone. Hence, gender is irrelevant in Heaven. How would the passage from Galatians jibe with 1 Corinthians 11:11?"Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." I wasn't clear if you were directing this at me or not. If so, my answer would be that this verse is specifically talking about our marriage here on earth.
thesometimesaint Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Matthew 16:19 has no such exclusion. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Rob Osborn Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 So, it appears that the LDS ignore the aspect of "there is no male nor female" of this verse. For me marriage is temporary, and eternal marriage is to Christ alone. Hence, gender is irrelevant in Heaven. I wasn't clear if you were directing this at me or not. If so, my answer would be that this verse is specifically talking about our marriage here on earth. Do you believe that Christ, in heaven, is male or female or neither?
Calm Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) So, it appears that the LDS ignore the aspect of "there is no male nor female" of this verse. Not interpreting a verse identically to you does not mean we ignore it. Do you believe an attribute can still exist and be irrelevant to how the Lord accepts us? Again, my example of hair colour. If LDS say that hair colour exists, does that mean we are ignoring verses that say such things as appearance don't matter to God? Edited November 8, 2013 by calmoriah
Stone holm Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 So, it appears that the LDS ignore the aspect of "there is no male nor female" of this verse. For me marriage is temporary, and eternal marriage is to Christ alone. Hence, gender is irrelevant in Heaven. I wasn't clear if you were directing this at me or not. If so, my answer would be that this verse is specifically talking about our marriage here on earth.You are driving that verse farther than it travels.
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