Ender's Game

[halconero]

I went to the premier. Very good movie and a good adaption as far as books to movies are concerned.

I wouldn't say it's kid friendly. Not because of sex, nudity or even swearing, but because of the themes it deals with: manipulation (especially kids), genocide, mental health issues, etc.

[jwhitlock]

Gays have the right to marry in most of the States around here, in some States they only have the right to marry in accordance with the religious beliefs and traditions of the dominant culture. And you needn't bother with the juvenile explanation that they have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex just like the heterosexuals. If everyone agreed upon the definition of marriage Prop 8 would not have been considered necessary. I personally don't approve of gays marrying each other, but that is strictly because of my religious beliefs which I will not sully by trying to impose on others via legislation. We have enough of that type of government going on in the Mideast right now.

 

Again, the point is that anyone who makes the claim that gays don't have the right to marry is not being accurate. There's nothing "juvenile" about it at all.. The real issue is that gays want to change the definition of marriage to suit themselves.

 

But we've been over that, and you simply choose to ignore it. The fact remains that the right to marry is not limited, contrary to the absolutist statement you made.

[jwhitlock]

Ok, I am getting used to the fact that you feel an intense need to attack everything I post.  I did not compare the extermination order with ssm.  In fact my post was not even remotely about SSM.  I was very clear that I do not think Scott is a bigot for his stance against SSM.  Did you miss that part?  I quoted some examples of his bigoted writing.  By talking about the extermination order, I was trying desperately to have you understand what it feels like to be unjustly attacked by a bigot and what the ramifications are of thrherticat kind of propaganda. Evidently that concept is beyond your pay scale.  Whatever.

 

The Extermination Order allowed the killing of Mormons. That you would make any attempt to compare it to your tortured accusation of bigotry on Card's part as something that he's doing to gays is simply offensive.

 

Your perception of "bigotry" on Card's part is just that - your own perception, and it doesn't appear to square with the facts of what he actually means. But SSM supporters do need villains, don't they, in order to further the cause. Hence nothing I can say will change your mind. It's already been determined what Card is, and that's the way it's going to stay - and facts to the contrary don't matter.

[jwhitlock]

 Guys, I really don't like the sarcasm and condescension that california boy's arguments been subjected to in this thread. I agree with a lot of what he has to say myself.    

 

And you seriously haven't detected any of this coming from CB? He's not exactly complementary about people who oppose SSM; in fact, he is very creative in attributing some very negative motivations to people like me for doing so, as he has demonstrated in this thread. Perhaps if he was actually attempting to discuss things in good faith, rather than denigrating the posts of those who oppose SSM, he might get different responses.

 

If the bickering continues the thread will be closed.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Yes, I hereby declare by the authority vested in moi that everyone in this thread debating SSM has been equally rude and condescending, including me. Now we can stop pointing our fingers at each other and saying He Started It and get on to more important topics for debate, namely: how great was the soundtrack to Ender's Game? Pretty great, I thought. 

[jwhitlock]

What surprises me is that your analogy wasn't subtle, but some people missed it anyway. You would think that members of the LDS church would be more sensitive to the use of law to discriminate than others. Maybe not.

 

Interesting that you'd post this, John, because while gay activists complain that laws supporting traditional marriage are somehow discriminatory against them (a complaint that is ridiculous if you consider it in any depth), SSM as the law of the land has the potential to be extremely discriminatory when it comes to religious freedom. Because the church has been subjected to discrimination before, we are actually able to recognize it when it's being set up legally.

 

However that concept doesn't sit well with SSM supporters, as you might well imagine.

[Yirgacheffe]

Ender's game, and the follow on books were great. Card's a very talented writer, and has done some interesting explorations of LDS related scenarios, such as with Folk of the Fringe. It's been interesting to watch how he's evolved over time.

I read Ender's game and liked it a lot, when I read Speaker for the Dead it took a while to get into it since it was quite a different book than Ender's game but I did like it.  I kept reading the Ender books and liked them less and less.  They were tedious, with characters I could not care about.  They were either dimensionless like the cliche catholics or so paralyzed by their tiresome navel gazing that the story couldn't move. 

 

I disagree with Card on SSM but that's not the reason I won't be seeing Enders game, I won't be seeing because by the end of the last two books in the series I just didn't like Ender anymore.  If I had finished the series liking them as much as the first book I'd be dragging my kids and trying to get them to read the books, but Card's not on my list after boring me so badly through two books.

[Bernard Gui]

Mrs. Gui and I just returned from date night at the movies...Ender's Game.

We both loved it. For Mrs. Gui to love a SciFi movie...well, that's really

saying something. I hope they turn a profit and make some more.

Excellent cast, great special effects, great music, compelling story with a moral at

the end. Go see it. I'm going again during the week.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

During the week, I get senior discount plus $2 off the price with a coupon...$4.50. Just like the old days,

well, it was $.25 back in the 60s when I worked in a theater.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[Rivers]

I saw Ender's Game last night with some of the guys from the Elder's quorum.  Great flick. The actor who played Ender did a fantastic job  It made me want to read the book again.  There's a lot details that are left out in the film.

[Stargazer]

Am going to the late show, early reviews from my son indicates its a lousy movie, but the judgment of people who like a book is often negative towards the movie, it is difficult to move from a book to a movie without annoying fans of the book, exceptions being the Harry Potter movies, and the final attempt at The Lord of the Rings.

For what it's worth, Michael Medved said is was "surprisingly good". Apparently he hadn't expected much. He gave it 3 stars out of 4.

[Stargazer]

now I feel bad I never even heard of Ender's game before the movie came out , neither had I heard of the Hunger Games!!

I only WISH I had never heard of the Hunger Games

[Rivers]

For what it's worth, Michael Medved said is was "surprisingly good". Apparently he hadn't expected much. He gave it 3 stars out of 4.

And Rotten Tomatoes gave it a score of 62% which is a fresh rating.

[Stargazer]

I saw Ender's Game last night with some of the guys from the Elder's quorum.  Great flick. The actor who played Ender did a fantastic job  It made me want to read the book again.  There's a lot details that are left out in the film.

That's the way it always is. I just re-read the book last week in preparation for the movie, which was probably the wrong preparation entirely. It is always best to watch the movie as the movie, and not the book.

I was so disappointed in the Return of the King when they completely omitted "The Scouring of the Shire" when Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin came back from the War of the Ring, only to have to liberate their own country from Saruman (who got whacked at the beginning of the movie version). The Scouring was always a favorite part of mine. But I understand the omission: in the flick it would have been a second climax. And a fifth wheel.

 

Mrs. Gui and I just returned from date night at the movies...Ender's Game.

We both loved it. For Mrs. Gui to love a SciFi movie...well, that's really

saying something. I hope they turn a profit and make some more.

Excellent cast, great special effects, great music, compelling story with a moral at

the end. Go see it. I'm going again during the week.

I will use your wife's endorsement as a way to get MINE to go to the movie with me. I understand that Ben Kingsley plays Mazer Rackham, and he was my choice for that role before I found out he was the one they picked. I actually thought they would go with Liam Neeson for the part (I had no idea of who they were considering). He would have worked in that role, too.

Ben Kingsley is such a great actor, and I was shocked to have him playing an actor playing The Mandarin, instead of the actual comic book Mandarin. They utterly screwed that one up. For all that Iron Man 3 was the 5th highest grossing film of all time, I was disappointed in it. The story was just bad.

[Rivers]

I didn't like Ben Kingsley in Ender's game.  I thought his role was one of the weaker parts of the movie.  And I actually really liked Iron Man 3.  It was definitely better than the second one.

[Bernard Gui]

I didn't like Ben Kingsley in Ender's game.  I thought his role was one of the weaker parts of the movie.  And I actually really liked Iron Man 3.  It was definitely better than the second one.

Gotta disagree on Kingsley. And I flipped over the Maori tats. I read the book so long ago that I was able to enjoy the movie for what it was. Maybe go back and read it again.

[Stargazer]

Gotta disagree on Kingsley. And I flipped over the Maori tats. I read the book so long ago that I was able to enjoy the movie for what it was. Maybe go back and read it again.

Yeah, that's right. Mazer Rackham was part-Maori in the book!

[Stargazer]

I didn't like Ben Kingsley in Ender's game.  I thought his role was one of the weaker parts of the movie.  And I actually really liked Iron Man 3.  It was definitely better than the second one.

Well, I can't comment on his performance in Ender's Game, but while I liked IM3 first time out, the more I thought about the plot and the storyline the less I liked it, and the cop-out of having an actor of Kingsley's caliber wimping out as some actor and not the "real" Mandarin was very disappointing. He did such a great job "acting" the Mandarin, then to have him suddenly be this Trevor Slattery from New Jersey or someplace... was a plot turn that turned me off.

And all those people who could turn themselves into heat-creatures? What, did they all wear asbestos clothing or something?

Whatever.

[jwhitlock]

I read Ender's game and liked it a lot, when I read Speaker for the Dead it took a while to get into it since it was quite a different book than Ender's game but I did like it.  I kept reading the Ender books and liked them less and less.  They were tedious, with characters I could not care about.  They were either dimensionless like the cliche catholics or so paralyzed by their tiresome navel gazing that the story couldn't move. 

 

I disagree with Card on SSM but that's not the reason I won't be seeing Enders game, I won't be seeing because by the end of the last two books in the series I just didn't like Ender anymore.  If I had finished the series liking them as much as the first book I'd be dragging my kids and trying to get them to read the books, but Card's not on my list after boring me so badly through two books.

People either really like his writing, or don't like it, from what I've seen. There's not much in between. The LDS related items in his books, where he explores alternate scenarios ( like Folk of the Fringe) are rather thought provoking, at least for me. However, I can see that they might be disconcerting to some members of the church.

That's fine. A good writer will elicit strng responses across the spectrum.

[Stone holm]

People either really like his writing, or don't like it, from what I've seen. There's not much in between. The LDS related items in his books, where he explores alternate scenarios ( like Folk of the Fringe) are rather thought provoking, at least for me. However, I can see that they might be disconcerting to some members of the church.

That's fine. A good writer will elicit strng responses across the spectrum.

Card in the Enders series was heavily influenced by Asimov who I consider to have been a dry Mormon. The Prentice Alvin series was his most original work.

[Yirgacheffe]

People either really like his writing, or don't like it, from what I've seen. There's not much in between. The LDS related items in his books, where he explores alternate scenarios ( like Folk of the Fringe) are rather thought provoking, at least for me. However, I can see that they might be disconcerting to some members of the church.

That's fine. A good writer will elicit strng responses across the spectrum.

The thing is I had read a number of books by Card (Folk of the Fringe among them) and enjoyed them. I had liked everything I'd read before I stared on the Ender series, so I was surprised to find myself so very disappointed by  the last two books in the series.  I so was disappointed that after Xenocide I never read another book by Card even though I have 3 or 4 Card books I received as gifts.  My time to sit and read is more limited than it used to be so I am just not willing to pick up a book from an author who so thoroughly disappointed me, I'd rather spend time taking a chance on finding other authors.

[Stone holm]

The thing is I had read a number of books by Card (Folk of the Fringe among them) and enjoyed them. I had liked everything I'd read before I stared on the Ender series, so I was surprised to find myself so very disappointed by  the last two books in the series.  I so was disappointed that after Xenocide I never read another book by Card even though I have 3 or 4 Card books I received as gifts.  My time to sit and read is more limited than it used to be so I am just not willing to pick up a book from an author who so thoroughly disappointed me, I'd rather spend time taking a chance on finding other authors.

Card made the mistake of publishing some manuscripts that were probably rejected before he achieved celebrity status. But he has written some very worthy stuff.

[Yirgacheffe]

Card in the Enders series was heavily influenced by Asimov who I consider to have been a dry Mormon. The Prentice Alvin series was his most original work.

I've read a lot of Asimov and was never disappointed in any of it, unlike Card.  Asimov considered himself a humanist and atheist not sure why you'd consider him any kind of Mormon.

[jwhitlock]

 Asimov who I consider to have been a dry Mormon. 

 

Why is that?

[changed]

I went and saw it with the fam last night too - it was very good, I love the message of  - it's not about winning, it's how you win that's important.  I need to go re-read the book too, it's been awhile.