Calm Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 What healings? http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=1468b00367c45110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD On July 22, in the midst of the sickness that afflicted so many, the Saints witnessed what Elder Wilford Woodruff would call “a day of God’s power.”1That morning the Prophet arose, called upon the Lord in prayer, and, being filled with the Spirit of the Lord, administered to the sick in his house, in the yard outside, and down by the river. He crossed the river and visited the home of Brigham Young in Montrose to give him a healing blessing. Then, in company with Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young, and other members of the Twelve, he continued on his mission of mercy among other Iowa Saints. Elder Woodruff recalled one of the most memorable healings of that day:“We crossed the public square, and entered Brother [Elijah] Fordham’s house. Brother Fordham had been dying for an hour, and we expected each minute would be his last. I felt the power of God that was overwhelming his Prophet. When we entered the house, Brother Joseph walked up to Brother Fordham, and took him by the right hand. … He saw that Brother Fordham’s eyes were glazed, and that he was speechless and unconscious.“After taking hold of his hand, [the Prophet] looked down into the dying man’s face and said: ‘Brother Fordham, do you not know me?’ At first he made no reply; but we could all see the effect of the Spirit of God resting upon him.“[Joseph] again said: ‘Elijah, do you not know me?’ With a low whisper, Brother Fordham answered, ‘Yes!’ The Prophet then said, ‘Have you not faith to be healed?’“The answer, which was a little plainer than before, was: ‘I am afraid it is too late. If you had come sooner, I think I might have been.’ He had the appearance of a man awaking from sleep. It was the sleep of death. Joseph then said: ‘Do you not believe that Jesus is the Christ?’ ‘I do, Brother Joseph,’ was the response.“Then the Prophet of God spoke with a loud voice, as in the majesty of the Godhead: ‘Elijah, I command you, in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, to arise and be made whole!’“The words of the Prophet were not like the words of man, but like the voice of God. It seemed to me that the house shook from its foundation. Elijah Fordham leaped from his bed like a man raised from the dead. A healthy color came to his face, and life was manifested in every act. His feet were done up in [cornmeal] poultices. He kicked them off his feet, scattering the contents, and then called for his clothes and put them on. He asked for a bowl of bread and milk, and ate it; then put on his hat and followed us into the street, to visit others who were sick.”2In a time of dire need, the Saints experienced an outpouring of the gift of healing at the hands of the Prophet.
helaman38 Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=1468b00367c45110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD Besides that one. What was the last miracle Joseph (or Hyrum) performed?
Calm Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 see also: http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Healings_and_miracles
helaman38 Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Why "besides that one"? Everyone knows that one but it was not towards the end of his life and I would like to know when the last one was. If there wasn't one for years, that should tell you something.
Calm Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) So even though that was years after he started the Church, almost twice as many years than till the time of his death, that doesn't count to demonstrate he was still in possession of spiritual gifts from the Lord? How about giving a cut off date so no one wastes time and then ends up with you waving your hand with a 'that doesn't count'....? And why in the world would the fact that "everyone knows that one" make a difference? Edited August 29, 2013 by calmoriah
helaman38 Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 So even though that was years after he started the Church, almost twice as many years than till the time of his death, that doesn't count to demonstrate he was still in possession of spiritual gifts from the Lord? How about giving a cut off date so no one wastes time and then ends up with you waving your hand with a 'that doesn't count'....? And why in the world would the fact that "everyone knows that one" make a difference? Wow, how many errors will it take before you care how God feels about it all? I'll spell it out: a. Know a tree by its fruit. b. If there is no spiritual fruit then Joseph did not have the Holy Spirit. Do you even know church history or who he was and what he was doing??
Calm Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) Wow, how many errors will it take before you care how God feels about it all? I'll spell it out: a. Know a tree by its fruit.Fruit such as healings as I linked to and you acknowledged? Why do those fruits not matter? It was over 9 years since he started the church, the church you said he was not called to start. If by your rules, fruit demonstrates the Holy Spirit, then at that time Joseph had the Holy Spirit confirming what he was doing....nine years after he started the Church and 7 years after Sec 84. So far, you are not showing much consistency among your claims, just a consistency of attack. Edited August 29, 2013 by calmoriah
Freedom Posted August 29, 2013 Author Posted August 29, 2013 Sorry to butt in here but, I am still waiting for references to support your claims mr 38.
helaman38 Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Fruit such as healings as I linked to and you acknowledged? Why do those fruits not matter? It was over 9 years since he started the church, the church you said he was not called to start. Well, I find it interesting that while Joseph was tweaking the church he started and adding so called "endowments" from God with kinds of promises he in truth was without the Holy Spirit. Besides an episode here or there around the time of Kirtland, he and Hyrum by all accounts were without the Holy Spirit. That should give you pause.
Freedom Posted August 29, 2013 Author Posted August 29, 2013 Well, I find it interesting that while Joseph was tweaking the church he started and adding so called "endowments" from God with kinds of promises he in truth was without the Holy Spirit. Besides an episode here or there around the time of Kirtland, he and Hyrum by all accounts were without the Holy Spirit. That should give you pause.By all accounts? so then please, provide one of these accounts for us. Please? just one?
Calm Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Well, I find it interesting that while Joseph was tweaking the church he started and adding so called "endowments" from God with kinds of promises he in truth was without the Holy Spirit. Besides an episode here or there around the time of Kirtland, he and Hyrum by all accounts were without the Holy Spirit. That should give you pause.So you are just going to ignore the healing in Nauvoo. Got it.
cdowis Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) To be clear President Benson reiterated the fact that the WHOLE church was still condemned and I could cite a great many other church leaders who said the same. I've already said I had my name removed to get out from the curse - yes I took it that serious and you should too! You left the church because it was under a curse? That explains alot. Edited August 29, 2013 by cdowis
rodheadlee Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Helaman38 you have a standing CFR at post 81. Please provide the required reference or retract your claim..
cursor Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I would say go where the water is purest - upstream. That's a cute, convenient saying. "Upstream." How does that necessarily mean "earlier" in one's life?Certainly that water would not be the purest for the life of a sinner who repented and then later came to his/her senses.Certainly that water would not be the purest for Jesus, who grew into his role, culminating in his sacrifice.Certainly the water of my youth is not the best that I have to offer. 2
cursor Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I would say go where the water is purest - upstream. Again, cute cliché. Hey ... if there is a rotting, dead sheep somewhere upstream, how far downstream must one go to find pure enough water to drink?
Calm Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) Again, cute cliché. Hey ... if there is a rotting, dead sheep somewhere upstream, how far downstream must one go to find pure enough water to drink?Then there is what the very young tend to do when sitting in water...... Earlier is definitely not always better. Edited August 29, 2013 by calmoriah 1
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