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Gay Marriage And What It Could Mean The Lds Church.


Mola Ram Suda Ram

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The title of this thread should say "Gay Marriage And What It Could Mean for the LDS Church."

So I Saw this story over on the Blaze.

http://www.theblaze....e-sex-nuptials/

I find it interesting that now that it is legal to marry of in England that that is not enough. This guy is wanting force the church into accpeting or performing thier marriage. I am telling you now that this is a type of thing that will happen in this nation when and if gay marriage is made legal er put on the same platform as traditional marriage.

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The title of this thread should say "Gay Marriage And What It Could Mean for the LDS Church."

So I Saw this story over on the Blaze.

http://www.theblaze....e-sex-nuptials/

I find it interesting that now that it is legal to marry of in England that that is not enough. This guy is wanting force the church into accpeting or performing thier marriage. I am telling you now that this is a type of thing that will happen in this nation when and if gay marriage is made legal er put on the same platform as traditional marriage.

I share your concern but the problem with England and some other Scandinavian and European countries is that they have official state religions. The Church of England is the religion of the state with Queen Elizabeth II as the official head of that church.

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Why does this couple think that can tell God He is supposed to treat them "equally"? Makes me ill.

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I share your concern but the problem with England and some other Scandinavian and European countries is that they have official state religions. The Church of England is the religion of the state with Queen Elizabeth II as the official head of that church.

This. The head of the Church (the queen) endorsed the idea. It seems logical the church should follow. Non governmental churches will not face this weird grey area.

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Hear, hear!!! Once civil gay marriage is legalized, the US government will force the LDS church to marry same-sex couples in it's temples, just like once civil interracial marriage was legalized, the US government forced the LDS church to marry interracial couples in its temples--and just like the US government forces the LDS church to marry interfaith couples in its temples, given that civil interfaith marriage is also legal!!

I mean, we ALL know that the American government and religion operate EXACTLY like how the British government and The Church of England relate... It's not like the US government are indistinguishable, when it comes to religious freedoms, or anything--otherwise, the original colonies would have probably rebelled, and we'd have a totally different constitution or something. (Btw, has anyone heard how LDS temples in all the European countries are being FORCED to marry same-sex couples?!?! Especially the Stockholm temple... which we all know is going to Outer Darkness in a handbag!)

Daniel

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Hear, hear!!! Once civil gay marriage is legalized, the US government will force the LDS church to marry same-sex couples in it's temples, just like once civil interracial marriage was legalized, the US government forced the LDS church to marry interracial couples in its temples--and just like the US government forces the LDS church to marry interfaith couples in its temples, given that civil interfaith marriage is also legal!!

I mean, we ALL know that the American government and religion operate EXACTLY like how the British government and The Church of England relate... It's not like the US government are indistinguishable, when it comes to religious freedoms, or anything--otherwise, the original colonies would have probably rebelled, and we'd have a totally different constitution or something. (Btw, has anyone heard how LDS temples in all the European countries are being FORCED to marry same-sex couples?!?! Especially the Stockholm temple... which we all know is going to Outer Darkness in a handbag!)

Daniel

I thought you were being serious...

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Why does this couple think that can tell God He is supposed to treat them "equally"?...

They probably interpret the scriptures as saying that God does treat all men equally and it is their faith that is doing it wrong based on a traditional misunderstanding of the scriptures or a misunderstanding of God due to traditional cultural interpretations....it is just how that is interpreted to play out that varies.
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Actually it's my understanding that it's included in the Act of Parliament that the CofE isn't allowed to marry gay couples, I remember there being a big stink about it from the Catholic church that they wanted the same legal status. Once again as it currently stands all other churches are protected by law from being forced to marry gay couples so suing the individual church would do no good, they'd have to challenge the government and force a change in the law. Unlike the US UK courts don't have the authority to change or make new laws, only Parliament can do that. A court may decide wether or not an action is covered or not covered by the law, or they'd have to get a European ruling to declare the law illegal.

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This guy is wanting force the church into accpeting or performing thier marriage. I am telling you now that this is a type of thing that will happen in this nation when and if gay marriage is made legal er put on the same platform as traditional marriage.

Surely you have some United States ONLY precedent to point to that would suggest the US Government will force a religion to perform an act.

Also, "the church" you mention is the Church Of England, who Head is the Queen who appoints clergy via a political process. So what we have is a man made Church subject to mans laws by politicians of man, I see no comparison nor reason to fear that America - which does not have a official religion - will force religions to perform ssm.

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The title of this thread should say "Gay Marriage And What It Could Mean for the LDS Church."

So I Saw this story over on the Blaze.

http://www.theblaze....e-sex-nuptials/

I find it interesting that now that it is legal to marry of in England that that is not enough. This guy is wanting force the church into accpeting or performing thier marriage. I am telling you now that this is a type of thing that will happen in this nation when and if gay marriage is made legal er put on the same platform as traditional marriage.

We have an individual in our Ward actively doing the same thing, and I must say that he is a severe test to me. On one hand I can scarcely restrain myself, but then I am confronted with the admonishment of Jesus Christ. My heart pounds like a jack hammer and I hope that I die rather than hurt him as it would make my life a lie.
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They probably interpret the scriptures as saying that God does treat all men equally and it is their faith that is doing it wrong based on a traditional misunderstanding of the scriptures or a misunderstanding of God due to traditional cultural interpretations....it is just how that is interpreted to play out that varies.

If the couple feels like their church represents God though, where do they get off trying to enforce a policy that God doesn't want?

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If the couple feels like their church represents God though, where do they get off trying to enforce a policy that God doesn't want?

That Pariliment and the Queen have direct say/control of the Church of England it is of no surprise to me that someone would use the same politicians to bring about something in the church of england; also consider the history of the Church of England, wasn't it founded because a man sought to tell God what to do?

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If the couple feels like their church represents God though, where do they get off trying to enforce a policy that God doesn't want?

They may feel that God is working through them to change things...

When people believe they are right, they are willing to do a lot of things...

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Also, "the church" you mention is the Church Of England, who Head is the Queen who appoints clergy via a political process.

The LDS church is 100% politics also, most callings. It is not based on who is the most righteous or who is called of god it is pure politics. Similar to climbing up the corporate ladder, the exact same thing. That goes for all levels of callings the higher the calling the more politics are involved. That is not meant to be offensive, that is just my truthful observation and just a basic understanding of how human beings work.

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The LDS church is 100% politics also, most callings. It is not based on who is the most righteous or who is called of god it is pure politics. Similar to climbing up the corporate ladder, the exact same thing.

I agree with Calmoriah--I disagree with the above statement, and don't believe you can even make such a universal claim. While I have my own criticisms of Mormonism, the above certainly isn't descriptive of local LDS leadership that I've experienced or witnessed over the course of my life.

Daniel

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The LDS church is 100% politics also, most callings. It is not based on who is the most righteous or who is called of god it is pure politics. Similar to climbing up the corporate ladder, the exact same thing. That goes for all levels of callings the higher the calling the more politics are involved. That is not meant to be offensive, that is just my truthful observation and just a basic understanding of how human beings work.

No, I have been involved in councils that make these decisions and you are wrong. Very wrong. It was a dumb thing to say and you are dumb for saying it.

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No, I have been involved in councils that make these decisions and you are wrong. Very wrong. It was a dumb thing to say and you are dumb for saying it.

Good grief, Nehor. Even when wrong, there's no need to call anyone "dumb."

Daniel

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The LDS church is 100% politics also, most callings. It is not based on who is the most righteous or who is called of god it is pure politics. Similar to climbing up the corporate ladder, the exact same thing. That goes for all levels of callings the higher the calling the more politics are involved. That is not meant to be offensive, that is just my truthful observation and just a basic understanding of how human beings work.

I can tell you for absolute certain that if you were right about this, there's no way I'd have the calling I do right now. No way. And that's just a fact, Jack! ;):D
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I can tell you for absolute certain that if you were right about this, there's no way I'd have the calling I do right now. No way. And that's just a fact, Jack! ;):D

Kengo I have read your very intelligent posts man, you deserve your calling. I would be proud to follow you.

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I am pretty dumb but I am not naive, it takes place friend

No one is saying it doesn't take place. Of course it takes place, people are involved. It is the 100% politics/pure politics claim that is seen as naive (one can be cynically naive as well as pollyanna naive). Black and white thinking at work...be wary of absolutes and exaggerations. It is no more true than the claim that it never happens.

Too many of us have seen the Spirit at work in callings, totally inactive individuals being called to important callings and fulfilling them beautifully, the quiet, nonassuming woman in the back getting called to be the RS President and suddenly everyone realizes what a dynamo she is.

I have also been in wards where the same women get recycled through the presidencies in spite of plenty of other gifted women available. I assume much the same happens at times with men.

But definitely not 100% or "pure". I would even say that it is most likely in the minority...though it may be higher in certain cultures (and I mean not only larger cultures, but microcultures on the ward and stake level. Any halfway intelligent leader is going to be concerned with burnout and so will look for 'new' blood.

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No one is saying it doesn't take place. Of course it takes place, people are involved. It is the 100% politics/pure politics claim that is seen as naive (one can be cynically naive as well as pollyanna naive). Black and white thinking at work...be wary of absolutes and exaggerations. It is no more true than the claim that it never happens.

Too many of us have seen the Spirit at work in callings, totally inactive individuals being called to important callings and fulfilling them beautifully, the quiet, nonassuming woman in the back getting called to be the RS President and suddenly everyone realizes what a dynamo she is.

I have also been in wards where the same women get recycled through the presidencies in spite of plenty of other gifted women available. I assume much the same happens at times with men.

But definitely not 100% or "pure". I would even say that it is most likely in the minority...though it may be higher in certain cultures (and I mean not only larger cultures, but microcultures on the ward and stake level. Any halfway intelligent leader is going to be concerned with burnout and so will look for 'new' blood.

Fair enough.

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Good grief, Nehor. Even when wrong, there's no need to call anyone "dumb."

Daniel

Of course there is no need. More of a 'want to do' kind of thing.

I am pretty dumb but I am not naive, it takes place friend

It might.....though I have never seen it. I have even been party to decisions made where members thought that it was a political decision. Almost invariably those are the ones where we dug deep on the list of candidates because the Spirit did not like the early candidates we came up with. So I have seen people such as yourself whinge about this and know they are wrong.

Even if it does happen rarely (and I am not convinced) I can categorically say that it is not 100% making you very wrong, very dumb, and very naive....at least on this point. I should clarify that I have no idea if you are dumb all the time. I meant in my first post that you were dumb at the time you invented this idea within your brain juices and when you shared it here. Outside of that you might be a genius.

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Even if it does happen rarely (and I am not convinced) I can categorically say that it is not 100% making you very wrong, very dumb, and very naive....at least on this point. I should clarify that I have no idea if you are dumb all the time. I meant in my first post that you were dumb at the time you invented this idea within your brain juices and when you shared it here. Outside of that you might be a genius.

I think you would like Kirby's FAIR presentation. One major point of it was that everyone's an idiot...and he did pretty good at demonstrating that was true. :)

He said he was not smart enough to come up with new material for each of his talks at these kinds of things so I found something like it:

http://www.usu-tube.com/printer_friendly/6923893

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